[Jim Hoak]

I was commenting today to some non-GCA friends, who are interested in golf course architecture, that the Tour course this week for the Honda is the poster child for bad architecture.  And I asked if any of them knew of any great courses designed in the '50's-'80's, something discussed on here often before.  One of them gave me a good response, which I retype below.  Any comments?
"Not so long ago, a "Top 100 Courses in the World" list was published, and divided by decade.  The number of courses on the list built between 1940 and 1991 was 6.  What happened?
In no particular order:
1.  Pros took over the game and it became hard to identify the best ones, so courses were built to be difficult and a more severe test.  Par was defended everywhere, every shot, from tee to green: narrow fairways, high rough, trees, fake lakes.
2.  Pros started designing courses with this philosophy in mind.  Because of the concept of non-bifurcation, we all play the same course.  Courses bragged about how severe they were, as if harder were better.  This infection spread.
3.  Golf was used to sell real estate, so instead of finding the great land (or the land finding the game), modern machinery was used to take bad land and artificially create courses that provided a test.  Fazio made these courses beautiful so no one noticed there was not thinking involved.  Part of the beauty became trees, and lush green fairways, flowers.
4.  Land got expensive for real estate developments so width was sacrificed; no width, no options and fewer angles; less fun for high handicappers; people leave the game.
Mike Kaiser is turning away from all this.  He is the most important man for the future of golf.
That's my architecture rant for the day."

[Cal Seifert]

Excellent point.  Sadly the types of courses you talk about are still being built.

[Brian Finn]

Your friend appears to be quite right.  I've used a recent US list below, and only 14 out of 100 were built between 1940-1989.  Clearly, a world list would have far fewer than 14 in this period. 

Using the 2017 Golf Digest Top 100 in the US - courses built by decade:

Pre-1900:  2
1900-1909: 1
1910-1919: 12
1920-1929: 24
1930-1939: 8
1940-1949: 1 (Peachtree)
1950-1959: 1 (Laurel Valley)
1960-1969: 4 (The Golf Club, Spyglass Hill, Crooked Stick, Sahalee)
1970-1979: 3 (Muirfield Village GC, Butler National, Oak Tree National)
1980-1989: 5 (Wade Hampton, The Honors Course, Castle Pines, TPC Sawgrass, Valhalla)
1990-1999: 15
2000-2010: 24

[Cal Seifert]

Your friend appears to be quite right.  I've used a recent US list below, and only 14 out of 100 were built between 1940-1989.  Clearly, a world list would have far fewer than 14 in this period. 

Using the 2017 Golf Digest Top 100 in the US - courses built by decade:

Pre-1900:  2
1900-1909: 1
1910-1919: 12
1920-1929: 24
1930-1939: 8
1940-1949: 1 (Peachtree)
1950-1959: 1 (Laurel Valley)
1960-1969: 4 (The Golf Club, Spyglass Hill, Crooked Stick, Sahalee)
1970-1979: 3 (Muirfield Village GC, Butler National, Oak Tree National)
1980-1989: 5 (Wade Hampton, The Honors Course, Castle Pines, TPC Sawgrass, Valhalla)
1990-1999: 15
2000-2010: 24

I'd imagine doing this with the golf magazine list would be even more dramatic.

[Brian Finn]

OK, better list to confirm opening post.  Golf Magazine T100 World (2017) - only 7 between 1940 and 1989. 

Pre-1880:  6
1880-1889:  5
1890-1899:  9
1900-1909:  8
1910-1919:  10
1920-1929:  21
1930-1939:  9
1940-1949:  1 (Tokyo)
1950-1959:  0
1960-1969:  1 (The Golf Club)
1970-1979:  4 (Teeth of The Dog, Muirfield Village, Waterville, Valderrama)
1980-1989:  1 (TPC Sawgrass)
1990-1999:  6
2000-2009:  10
2010-present:  9

[Jim_Kennedy]

You can throw the the '40s right out, nothing was being built during the war years. In the '50s and '60s the demand for courses was so great (something like 900 in the works in the late '50s) that quantity was more important that quality. Also, no one was 'rating' courses in anywhere near the fashion that began in the mid '60s, so there was little pressure to build something spectacular pre-rankings.   


Using Brian's list:
30 courses in the 43 years between 1970 to 2017 = .69 courses per year on the list
62 courses in the 60 years between 1880 to 1940 = 1.03 courses per year on the list


Miniscule difference.

[Nigel Islam]

So 25 of the top 100 courses in the world and 39 out of the top 100 in the country have been built since 1990.


Who says there is no recency bias on the rankings list?


Although, I think further strengthens the point Jim was wanting to make. Despite a strong recency bias, those years are STILL underrepresented.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'm guessing that all of those pre-1950 courses have evolved a considerable amount, some more than others, so I guess you could make the case that every one of them is a 'modern' course. 

[Jim Nugent]

So 25 of the top 100 courses in the world and 39 out of the top 100 in the country have been built since 1990.


Who says there is no recency bias on the rankings list?


Although, I think further strengthens the point Jim was wanting to make. Despite a strong recency bias, those years are STILL underrepresented.

I'm not sure I agree.  My guess is the top 10 or top 20 are heavily top-loaded with pre-1940. 

Also, I bet vastly fewer golf courses were built before 1940, compared to after 1970.  On a percentage basis, ODG courses dominate by a lot. 

Jim Kennedy's ratios are skewed a bit IMO because he included the 20 years before 1900. Only 2 top 100 courses were built then.  Consider only 1900 to 1940, and the average per year he calculated is around 1.5.  More than double the average after 1970. 

And still another way to consider it: per capita, comparing golf courses by era with population.  The U.S. has 2.5 times as many people as it did when the depression started.  That turns the 1.5 ratio I came up with into  3.75: more than 5x as much as the .69 ratio for 1970 to now. 

It's also telling that most of the highest-ranking modern courses follow the same principles as the top ODG courses. 

So it looks to me that the rankings are probably heavily slanted towards older courses as opposed to modern. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jim,


I used Brian's list - there are 14 courses on it that were built between 1880 and 1899.

[Jim Nugent]

Jim, I see.  I (mistakenly) thought you were using the US list.  On the US list, the ratios are much closer, around 1.12 for 1900 to 1940, and about 1.0 for 1970 to the present. 

btw, I think you made a slight error.  1970 to present is 47 years, not 43.  That lowers the modern ratio to around 0.64.  On a yearly basis, the old-time courses outnumber the modern by about 60%.   

[Jim_Kennedy]

All I can say is - Doh!

[Jeff Schley]

Here is the Golf Digest 2017-18 Top 100 US Courses list to ponder and contemplate patterns:

1 PINE VALLEY G.C.PINE VALLEY G.C., Pine Valley, N.J./ George Crump & H.S. Colt (1918)
 2 AUGUSTA NATIONAL G.C.AUGUSTA NATIONAL G.C., Augusta, Ga. / Alister MacKenzie & Bobby Jones (1933)
 3 CYPRESS POINT CLUBCYPRESS POINT CLUB, Pebble Beach / Alister MacKenzie & Robert Hunter (1928)
 4 SHINNECOCK HILLS G.C., Southampton, N.Y. / William Flynn (1931)
 5 OAKMONT C.C., Oakmont, Pa. / Henry Fownes (1903)
 6 MERION G.C. (East), Ardmore, Pa. / Hugh Wilson (1912)
 7 PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS, Pebble Beach / Jack Neville & Douglas Grant (1919)
 8 NATIONAL G. LINKS OF AMERICA, Southampton, N.Y. / C.B. Macdonald (1911)
 9 SAND HILLS G.C., Mullen, Neb. / Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw (1994)
 10 WINGED FOOT G.C. (West), Mamaroneck, N.Y. / A.W. Tillinghast (1923)
 11 FISHERS ISLAND CLUB, Fishers Island, N.Y. / Seth Raynor & Charles Banks (1926)
 12 CRYSTAL DOWNS C.C., Frankfort, Mich. / Alister MacKenzie & Perry Maxwell (1931)
 13 SEMINOLE G.C., Juno Beach, Fla. / Donald Ross (1929)
 14 CHICAGO G.C., Wheaton, Ill. / C.B. Macdonald (1894) / Seth Raynor (1923)
 15 MUIRFIELD VILLAGE G.C., Dublin, Ohio / Jack Nicklaus & Desmond Muirhead (1974)
 16 THE COUNTRY CLUB (Clyde/Squirrel), Chestnut Hill, Mass. / Willie Campbell (1895) / Alex Campbell (1902)
 17 OAKLAND HILLS C.C. (South), Bloomfield Hills, Mich. / Donald Ross (1918)
 18 PACIFIC DUNES, Bandon, Ore. / Tom Doak (2001)
 19 FRIAR'S HEAD G.C., Baiting Hollow, N.Y. / Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw (2002)
 20 OAK HILL C.C. (East), Rochester, N.Y. / Donald Ross (1925)
 21 THE OCEAN COURSE, Kiawah Island, S.C. / Pete Dye (1991)
 22 WHISTLING STRAITS (Straits), Haven, Wis. / Pete Dye (1998)
 23 LOS ANGELES C.C. (North), Los Angeles / George C. Thomas Jr. (1921)
 24 RIVIERA C.C., Pacific Palisades, Calif. / George C. Thomas Jr. & W.P. Bell (1926)
 25 WADE HAMPTON G.C., Cashiers, N.C. / Tom Fazio (1987)
 26 SHADOW CREEK, North Las Vegas, Nev. / Tom Fazio (1990)
 27 THE ALOTIAN CLUB, Roland, Ark. / Tom Fazio (2004)
 28 GOZZER RANCH G. & LAKE C., Harrison, Idaho / Tom Fazio (2007)
 29 PRAIRIE DUNES C.C, Hutchinson, Kan. / Perry Maxwell (1937) / Press Maxwell (1957)
 30 PINEHURST RESORT (No. 2), Pinehurst, N.C. / Donald Ross (1935)
 31 THE OLYMPIC CLUB (Lake), San Francisco / Sam Whiting (1924)
 32 THE HONORS COURSE, Ooltewah, Tenn. / Pete Dye (1983)
 33 PEACHTREE G.C., Atlanta / Robert Trent Jones & Bobby Jones (1947)
 34 THE GOLF CLUB, New Albany, Ohio / Pete Dye (1967)
 35 SOUTHERN HILLS C.C., Tulsa, Okla. / Perry Maxwell (1936)
 36 BANDON DUNES, Bandon, Ore. / David McLay Kidd (1999)
 37 SAN FRANCISCO G.C., San Francisco / A.W. Tillinghast (1924)
 38 BETHPAGE STATE PARK (Black), Farmingdale, N.Y. / Joseph H. Burbeck & A.W. Tillinghast (1936)
 39 BALTUSROL G.C. (Lower), Springfield, N.J. / A.W. Tillinghast (1922)
 40 PIKEWOOD NATIONAL G.C., Morgantown, W. Va. / J. Robert Gwynne & John Raese (2009)
 41 SEBONACK G.C., Southampton, N.Y. / Jack Nicklaus & Tom Doak (2006)
 42 CASTLE PINES G.C., Castle Rock, Colo. / Jack Nicklaus (1981)
 43 VICTORIA NATIONAL G.C., Newburgh, Ind. / Tom Fazio (1998)
 44 ERIN HILLS G. CSE., Erin, Wis. / Michael Hurdzan, Dana Fry & Ron Whitten (2006)
 45 BUTLER NATIONAL G.C., Oak Brook, Ill. / George Fazio & Tom Fazio (1974)
 46 GARDEN CITY G.C., Garden City, N.Y. / Devereux Emmet (1899)
 47 OLD MACDONALD, Bandon, Ore. / Tom Doak & Jim Urbina (2010)
 48 MEDINAH C.C. (No. 3), Medinah, Ill. / Tom Bendelow (1928)
 49 SPYGLASS HILL G. CSE., Pebble Beach / Robert Trent Jones (1966)
 50 BALLYNEAL G.C., Holyoke, Colo. / Tom Doak (2006)
 51 TPC SAWGRASS (Players Stadium), Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla. / Pete Dye (1980)
 52 CAMARGO CLUB, Indian Hill, Ohio / Seth Raynor & Charles Banks (1927)
 53 KINLOCH G.C., Manakin-Sabot, Va. / Lester George & Vinny Giles (2001)
 54 INTERLACHEN C.C., Edina, Minn. / Willie Watson (1911)
 55 WHISPERING PINES G.C., Trinity, Texas / Chet Williams (2000)
 56 OLD SANDWICH G.C., Plymouth, Mass. / Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw (2005)
 57 SCIOTO C.C., Columbus, Ohio / Donald Ross (1916)
 58 OAK TREE NATIONAL, Edmond, Okla. / Pete & Alice Dye (1976)
 59 DALLAS NATIONAL G.C., Dallas / Tom Fazio (2002)
 60 PETE DYE G.C., Bridgeport, W.Va. / Pete Dye (1994)
 61 BALTUSROL G.C. (Upper), Springfield, N.J. / A.W. Tillinghast (1922)
 62 WINGED FOOT G.C. (East), Mamaroneck, N.Y. / A.W. Tillinghast (1923)
 63 CANYATA G.C., Marshall, Ill. / Bob Lohmann & Mike Benkusky (2004)
 64 SOMERSET HILLS C.C., Bernardsville, N.J. / A.W. Tillinghast (1918)
 65 MONTEREY PENINSULA C.C. (Shore), Pebble Beach / Mike Strantz (2004)
 66 SHOREACRES, Lake Bluff, Ill. / Seth Raynor (1921)
 67 KITTANSETT CLUB, Marion, Mass. / William Flynn & Frederic Hood (1922)
 68 ARCADIA BLUFFS G.C., Arcadia, Mich. / Rick Smith & Warren Henderson (2000)
 69 SPRING HILL G.C., Wayzata, Minn. / Tom Fazio (1999)
 70 BANDON TRAILS, Bandon, Ore. / Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw (2005)
 71 MILWAUKEE C.C., River Hills, Wis. / H.S. Colt & C.H. Alison (1929)
 72 MAIDSTONE CLUB, East Hampton, N.Y. / Willie Park Jr. & Jack Park (1924)
 73 CHERRY HILLS C.C., Cherry Hills Village, Colo. / William Flynn (1923)
 74 THE ESTANCIA CLUB, Scottsdale / Tom Fazio (1995)
 75 CONGRESSIONAL C.C. (Blue), Bethesda, Md. / Robert Trent Jones (1962)
 76 QUAKER RIDGE G.C., Scarsdale, N.Y. / A.W. Tillinghast (1918)
 77 PLAINFIELD C.C., Edison, N.J. / Donald Ross (1921)
 78 ARONIMINK G.C., Newtown Square, Pa. / Donald Ross (1928)
 79 OLYMPIA FIELDS C.C. (North), Olympia Fields, Ill. / Willie Park Jr. (1922)
 80 THE VALLEY CLUB OF MONTECITO, Montecito, Calif. / Alister MacKenzie & Robert Hunter (1929)
 81 VALHALLA G.C., Louisville / Jack Nicklaus (1986)
 82 BOSTON G.C., Hingham, Mass. / Gil Hanse (2004)
 83 THE QUARRY AT LA QUINTA, La Quinta, Calif. / Tom Fazio (1994)
 84 THE G.C. AT BLACK ROCK, Coeur d’Alene, Idaho / Jim Engh (2003)
 85 HUDSON NATIONAL G.C., Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y. / Tom Fazio (1996)
 86 DOUBLE EAGLE CLUB, Galena, Ohio / Jay Morrish & Tom Weiskopf (1992)
 87 YEAMANS HALL CLUB, Charleston, S.C. / Seth Raynor & Charles Banks (1926)
 88 RICH HARVEST LINKS, Sugar Grove, Ill. / Jerry Rich & Greg Martin (1999)
 89 INVERNESS CLUB, Toledo, Ohio / Donald Ross (1919)
 90 DIAMOND CREEK G.C., Banner Elk, N.C. / Tom Fazio (2003)
 91 ESSEX COUNTY CLUB, Manchester, Mass. / Donald Ross (1917)
 92 BLACKWOLF RUN (River), Kohler, Wis. / Pete Dye (1990)
 93 THE PRESERVE G.C., Carmel, Calif. /Tom Fazio, J. Michael Poellot & Sandy Tatum (2000)
 94 CROOKED STICK G.C., Carmel, Ind. / Pete Dye (1967)
 95 LAUREL VALLEY G.C., Ligonier, Pa. / Dick Wilson (1959)
 96 CALUSA PINES G.C., Naples, Fla. / Michael Hurdzan & Dana Fry (2001)
 97 FLINT HILLS NATIONAL G.C., Andover, Kan. / Tom Fazio (1997)
 98 SAHALEE C.C. (South/North), Sammamish, Wash. / Ted Robinson (1969)
 99 MAYACAMA G.C., Santa Rosa, Calif. / Jack Nicklaus (2001)
 100 EAGLE POINT G.C., Wilmington, N.C. / Tom Fazio (2000)

[Nigel Islam]

So 25 of the top 100 courses in the world and 39 out of the top 100 in the country have been built since 1990.


Who says there is no recency bias on the rankings list?


Although, I think further strengthens the point Jim was wanting to make. Despite a strong recency bias, those years are STILL underrepresented.

I'm not sure I agree.  My guess is the top 10 or top 20 are heavily top-loaded with pre-1940. 

Also, I bet vastly fewer golf courses were built before 1940, compared to after 1970.  On a percentage basis, ODG courses dominate by a lot. 

Jim Kennedy's ratios are skewed a bit IMO because he included the 20 years before 1900. Only 2 top 100 courses were built then.  Consider only 1900 to 1940, and the average per year he calculated is around 1.5.  More than double the average after 1970. 

And still another way to consider it: per capita, comparing golf courses by era with population.  The U.S. has 2.5 times as many people as it did when the depression started.  That turns the 1.5 ratio I came up with into  3.75: more than 5x as much as the .69 ratio for 1970 to now. 

It's also telling that most of the highest-ranking modern courses follow the same principles as the top ODG courses. 

So it looks to me that the rankings are probably heavily slanted towards older courses as opposed to modern.

Jim,
You are probably right. I seem to remember something from Golf Week that said it was essentially 2:1 Moderns to Classics. I do think though there is a bit of a recency bias. Although I might be turning into Kramer in “Anytown, USA.”

[Sean_A]

Modern/Classic line is rather arbitrary, but I would suggest that 1939 is probably the best date (quite close to the mid point of golf history in the US as well)...the year Old Town opened (which remarkably and stupidly isn't on the above list)...then the War hit.  Going on this premise the list is probably not too far off 50-50. Given that more courses were built after WWII than previous, I would say there is a slant toward classic courses, but the gap has been largely reduced in recent years....I think purposely so by panels.  Mind you, the media hype with new courses these days does skew things a bit so it can be hard to tell if some of the new courses have staying power...especially as some classics are being renovated. The real issue going forward is will the classics without any reputation be seen in a more favourable light as more and more gems are dug up?  I am convinced that the more folks dig the more we will find courses in smaller markets or markets that have grown a ton that there are very fine courses worthy of attention.

Ciao 

[BCrosby]

1940-1949: 1 (Peachtree)
1950-1959: 1 (Laurel Valley)
1960-1969: 4 (The Golf Club, Spyglass Hill, Crooked Stick, Sahalee)
1970-1979: 3 (Muirfield Village GC, Butler National, Oak Tree National)

Interesting to note how the rankings reflect the 'Dark Ages' of golf architecture. Over about 40 years of golf course construction (1940 - 1980), only nine courses appear in the top 100 US. And arguably some of those nine are too highly ranked.


Also interesting is that in the post WWII era, when the design ideas used in the great courses in the Golden Age were living memories for many, so few good courses were built. 


Bob

[Jim Hoak]

I'm glad to see that BCrosby's post has gotten this thread back on the track it was meant to pose.  My friend was not arguing that there is a statistical bias toward older courses--or not.  He was observing that there was a gap in great courses being built--with very few being opened in the '50's through the '80's.  Since 1990, several have been opened.
Why was there this gap?  What changed in golf course architecture after WWII so that for 30-40 years very few great, lasting courses were designed?  And what changed in the 1990's, so that once again we are seeing long-lasting masterpieces?  He gave his reasons for the phenomenon; what are yours?

[Phil Carlucci]

Also interesting is that in the post WWII era, when the design ideas used in the great courses in the Golden Age were living memories for many, so few good courses were built. 


Bob

Is it possible that when course-building resumed in the years following WWII that the focus shifted more to producing "good" courses at a faster pace (and in many cases with public players in mind), rather than reproducing or carrying on the past work of great designers?

At least on a local level, nothing was built again on Long Island until the early 1950s, and when course-building really kicked back into high gear in the early '60s, many of the dozens of new courses built in that decade were for the public/muni player.

[Jim Nugent]

And what changed in the 1990's, so that once again we are seeing long-lasting masterpieces?

The change probably started in the 1960s and its name is Pete Dye.  As I understand it, he gave GCA the kick that jolted it out of the doldrums.  He also hired and trained many of the next generation of super-star architects, who ushered in the modern golden age. 

I wonder what would have become of golf course architecture, had Pete Dye remained an insurance agent?   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Interesting to note how the rankings reflect the 'Dark Ages' of golf architecture. Over about 40 years of golf course construction (1940 - 1980), only nine courses appear in the top 100 US. And arguably some of those nine are too highly ranked.

Also interesting is that in the post WWII era, when the design ideas used in the great courses in the Golden Age were living memories for many, so few good courses were built. 


Bob

Most of us forget why they left the Golden Age design ideas behind - they were into modernization, streamlining, and mostly, forgetting the last 25 years of the collective history.  While none of us was alive, I am sure WWII and the Depression affected them as much as 9-11 or Vietnam affected our collective consciousness.  "New and improved" sold more than Tide laundry detergent.

Secondarily, while they missed the point a bit (with RTJ and Wilson building so many championship level courses) they were concerned mostly with making golf available to the masses.  The biggest distance issue was the distance from the front door to the first tee, which is why so many were built in housing areas.

And, after a few decades of good economic times, golf course developers (perhaps forgetting some history) started thinking in terms of good golf course design principles again. 

Or, in the big picture, there is a time and a place for when the collective mindset is "ready" to be changed. 

While Pete was a unique individual that influenced design starting in the 60's, he likely wouldn't have emerged 10 years earlier.   

Of course, there is also a broad continuum when only a few major events speed the pace of change up. And, 25 years later, it was ready to be changed again, owing mostly to Sand Hills and/or Mike Keiser.

[Dave Doxey]

To properly analyze this question, one would also need to know the number of courses built in each decade. The percentage of courses built in each decade that make the ranking lists would be meaningful.  I suspect that the decades where more courses were built would have highers numbers reflected in the rankings.  Anyone have the data on the number of courses built by decade?

[BCrosby]

After a deep freeze during the Great Depression and WWII, by the mid-1960's and through the 1970's there was a tornado of new course construction in the US. Which suggests that the quality of courses built in a given time frame is not a function of how many were built in that time frame.


Jeff -


I get all the historical forces in play. But if the key to golf architecture circa 1965 through the early '80's(?)  was to build more golf courses as cheaply as possible (a proposition I am not sure is true, btw), there is no reason to think you couldn't do so using basic design principles from the Golden Age. There is no necessary trade-off between building a course following basic design principles laid down by, say, Harry Colt or D. Ross, and building a course that is not expensive. In fact the bulk of Colt's and Ross' respective design portfolios are comprised of courses that were inexpensive to build and easy to maintain.


Bob


[size=78%] [/size]

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bob,


Yes, cost was a concern, but so was using new technology, namely irrigation.  Also, bigger and more efficient earthmoving machinery.  Ross was pleased with their capabilities, but near the end of his career so he lamented not being able to use them.  After a 20 year break, post WWII architects probably tried to play "catch up."  By the 1960's, PVC pipe was introduced, further making irrigation, and in the 1980's, to drainage, which changed thinking on some of the Golden Age principles about just letting them surface drain, etc.  Concurrent with all that, carts came common, then universal, etc.  Maybe design to accommodate golf as it was perceived then (form follows function) and all that goes with it (real estate, carts) knocked great design down the checklist a bit from the days of building primarily country clubs for the elite.


Lastly, I recall having the "we don't need more great courses" discussion with Killian and Nugent when I started there in 1977, who by most accounts were representative of their generations thinking about architecture. There were the Golden Age classics, hosting the US Opens, etc. and other courses.   I recall asking whether there would EVER be a great course built again (recall, this was at the tail end of the Oil Embargo/Watergate era, which dampened enthusiasm)


Perhaps, as distance gains kept coming, and there was a need to build new championship courses longer, there was also the newly rediscovered though that hey, we ought to design them to be great (a la Pete Dye portfolio, JN being asked to design tournament courses, etc.)  And, we see US Opens now at more "modern classics" designed for such.


I hate to keep bringing the discussion back to top architects and tournaments, although they probably define any generation.  Many over the years have said the quality of the mid level courses has gone way up since the 1980's, and maybe before, compared to the Golden Age.


And, while probably an entirely different bucket of possums, we could debate whether or not the Golden Age principles were entirely correct?  Remember, most of those high fallutin ideas were marketing books, where the goal was to sound as complicated as possible, so clubs wouldn't consider not hiring an architect.  Even giving them credit for believing all they wrote, I still wonder why they thought you should challenge a hazard with a driver rather than five iron?  At the very least, good players now know that playing defense wins championships, and rarely think their way around the course the way the Golden Age guys thought they should.  (The Shinny Redan example comes to mind quickly)


In the end, it was just a whole lot of things that happened to happen.


Cheers.

[BCrosby]

Jeff -


Causation, particularly historical causation, is always a tangle. In the case of gca, there is a temptation to explain away the Dark Ages by reference to a complicated set of external (as the economists say, 'exogenous') factors. Pretty quickly into the discussion, people throw up their hands.


I think that is a fudge. What I am getting at is that the explanation for the Dark Ages is not as complicated as it is usually made out to be.


The post-WWII generation of architects wanted badly to get out from under the shadow of their Golden Age mentors. Like every red-blooded architect ever, the new generation were egotistical (in the case of RTJ maybe to a pathological extreme) who - understandably - wanted to leave their mark on gca. They thought they had some better ideas. It turned out they didn't.
[size=78%]  [/size].
Bob   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bob,


True enough.  When trying new ideas, 80-99% of them are going to be later found wanting to be discarded or combined with some other idea to be made better.


I don't happen to believe you can label an entire era "the dark ages."  They didn't vary that much from the GA guys, nor did they get everything wrong, as some like to believe.


Even the designs of our current design stars will someday look like beehive hairdos.  Things just change.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()