[Ira Fishman]

Both great holes? One is and one is not? Neither is great? What is the difference?


Your views?


Ira


PS I try not to comment on courses I have not played (Riviera in this case) but comparison too interesting to pass up.

[William_G]

the 2nd shot at Trails 14 is vey difficult wherever you are unless you are right in front of the green

the tight lies everywhere else whatever the distance, essentially take the lob wedge and spin shot out your hands

have to say that 10 at Riviera is easier but not less fun to watch in a tournament, LOL

[Terry Lavin]

Both are challenging, with a heavy dose of forced quirk that leads to lucky birdies and some ridiculous bogies and “others”. 14 at BT presented a very challenging assignment for the architect as it was a necessary connector hole to transition from forest to dunes. The result is not entirely satisfying in my view.


10 at Riv seems more palatable given its age but the presence of those ornamental shrubs is ridiculous and it seems like there’s no easy way to hit two simple shots for a birdie putt. I loved the challenge every time I played it but it makes for awkward television viewing when the pros visit.

[William_G]

Hey Terry

Yes given that 14 has been so difficult and quirky, it has been modified more significantly than any hole on property in terms of playability for both the tee shot and 2nd shot over the years

[Terry Lavin]

Hey Terry

Yes given that 14 has been so difficult and quirky, it has been modified more significantly than any hole on property in terms of playability for both the tee shot and 2nd shot over the years

I think I’ve played every version. I accept the hole for what it is: a way to get from 13 green to 15 tee. To paraphrase Jerry Garcia: what a short, strange trip it is!

[Tom_Doak]

The difference is at Riviera you can see what you are doing, and see where your ball lands. A lot of the controversy at Bandon Trails comes about because your shot that got screwed didn't really land where you thought it did.

[Jeff Schley]

The difference is at Riviera you can see what you are doing, and see where your ball lands. A lot of the controversy at Bandon Trails comes about because your shot that got screwed didn't really land where you thought it did.

Good so I wasn't the only one who got screwed at BT.  Misery loves company.

[William_G]

The difference is at Riviera you can see what you are doing, and see where your ball lands. A lot of the controversy at Bandon Trails comes about because your shot that got screwed didn't really land where you thought it did.

yes a very sloped fairway coming down from were Mike Keiser was inspired by the view of the property to give it  a go with the resort

yes, the lower collection area to the right was where most ended up, leaving you with an almost impossible shot to hit the green from a tight lie

the landing area for the tee shot has now been widened to the left, so that a fade or a slice may now be hit off the tee

previously, a draw was required from a right-hander to have a go at the green or landing area

[Ian Andrew]

I'll speak to the very first version of the green at Bandon Trails ... I loved the hole but had to question the green surface after ... we had two players putt off the green and end up at the bottom of the hill behind the green. At Riviera there's no likelihood of putting off the green.

[/size]One of the players involved played the other 17 holes at even and never finished the 14th. We all liked the concept, but felt the green was over the top. I can't speak to the current version because I have not played it.

[William_G]

Hi Ian

the green looks big from the tee yet plays small side to side which is how most 2nd shots are played

the front of the green has been enlarged and the green has also been widened a little but the slope to the right is still there in the green

as the Poa takes over in the coming years, it will be more playable for the 2nd shot

10 at Riviera is easier, but the front hole location could lead you to putting off the green.

cheers

[Doug Wright]

The 10th at Riviera has myriad options off the tee; not so much for the 14th at Bandon Trails, and even with the (slightly) larger area to the left side of the fairway the odds of staying there vs. leaving a blind second shot--one of the most difficult short iron shots I've ever faced--is very small.

[Josh Tarble]

I think Bandon Trails 14 is an amazing hole...in the same vein as Riviera #10, Streamsong Red #9, and several other short 4s that aren't an easy birdie (or par) but tempt the player into trying for eagle.  Just because they're <300 yards, doesn't mean that have to be pushovers.


I do think the walk up to BT #14 compromises my overall opinion of it.  As a standalone hole, it's great.  As part of the overall routing I think it feels a little forced on an otherwise great walk.

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