Augusta's 5th Hole Plans

[Erik J. Barzeski]

http://www.augusta.com/masters/story/news-sports/2018-02-17/site-plans-show-proposed-changes-fifth-hole-augusta-national

Big changes could be coming soon to Augusta National Golf Club’s fifth hole, according to preliminary site plans filed Jan. 30 with the Augusta Planning and Development Department.

The tee box for Masters Tournament play on the 455-yard, par-4 hole could be pushed back an estimated 20-30 yards across Old Berckmans Road. The new tee would alleviate congestion at the fourth green and current fifth tee, which are just a few yards apart.

Old Berckmans Road has been closed to through traffic since 2015, but the plans call for the road to curve around the area that will be used as a tee box.

An Augusta National spokesman said Friday that no definitive plans have been announced for any work on the fifth hole and that the site plans were filed so the club could explore its options.

[Jim Nugent]

How will this change the way the hole plays for the pro's? 

[Greg Chambers]

I say just keep pushing the tees back...it’s the only way to defend against these players that just keep getting stronger year after year.....................

[Jon Wiggett]

I say just keep pushing the tees back...it’s the only way to defend against these players that just keep getting stronger year after year.....................

That is just plain wrong Greg. The should slope the tees downward by 5% and plant hedging in front of them thus taking the driver out of the pros hand turning the bomb/wedge culture we have now into a wedge/bomb culture in the future 

[Jeff Schley]

Augusta probably has enough resources to buy up the entire city and make it part of AGNC and making any changes they could easily absorb.  Without limiting the golf ball it causes every other club that wants to "stay relevant" to have to continue to increase their distances, which is capital intensive.  The ball companies will simply make a design to max. specs.  Players will still need to buy golf balls, just a different kind and patent rights etc. shouldn't come into play since it is being rolled back to another era. 

I don't know a perfect answer or it would have been done, but changing the ball seems the least difficult option.

[Wade Whitehead]

Good, because all I ever hear people talk about during Masters week is how easy the fifth hole plays.

WW

[Cal Seifert]

How long until a tee box is pushed back all the way to South Carolina?

[Eric LeFante]

How will this change the way the hole plays for the pro's?

The original intent of that green was to allow players the option to land the ball on the front tier with a long iron and chase the ball over the slope. That certainly doesn’t happen now that players have 7 iron into the green and it probably won’t happen if you add 20-30 yards.

[Jeff Schley]

How will this change the way the hole plays for the pro's?

The original intent of that green was to allow players the option to land the ball on the front tier with a long iron and chase the ball over the slope. That certainly doesn’t happen now that players have 7 iron into the green and it probably won’t happen if you add 20-30 yards.

I know they want to bring the left bunker back into play and it seems they can carry it too easily.  If they move it back 20-30 then now it is a 320-330 yard carry I think so that will cause them to play out to the right and have a longer approach.  Traditionally it isn't an easy hole, I don't know the exact handicap but probably 6 or lower.

[Jim Nugent]

I just looked up the stats on the Masters website.  Historically, over all Masters tournaments, the players have averaged 4.27 strokes.  That makes it the 5th hardest hole against par. 

Last year they averaged 4.213 strokes, making it the 5th hardest hole overall, and the 4th hardest par 4 (after 1, 18 and 11). 

The website's description has a couple of interesting facts about the hole:  "An uphill, dogleg left to a sloping green. The fairway bunkers are deep and positioned to demand accuracy off the tee. To clear them requires a carry of 315 yards. The green slopes back to the front, and a rear bunker catches balls hit too long. "This hole was inspired by the legendary Road Hole at the Old Course at St. Andrews. Bobby Jones initially disapproved of the fairway bunkers."

[Eric LeFante]

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/opinions-split-lengthening-no-5-augusta/?cid=rr_editorial_p4


I like Phil’s comment, “I’m a big fan of making the hard holes harder and the easy holes easier”


It’s amazing to me that McDowell and Spieth think the hole will be unfair because you may not be able to fly a 5 iron to that back tier and stop it. They aren’t even considering that Jones and Mackenzie intended for them to play a low running shot up that tier. Let’s see some variety and shot making!

[Erik J. Barzeski]

This seems unnecessary. It’s a tougher hole already.

[Connor Dougherty]

This should be an exercise for the public to realize the insane steps courses have to go to in order to stay relevant in today's game. Instead, everyone will marvel at Augusta's ability to expand their resources. That shouldn't be the point. If it were any other club doing it, it might be viewed as an excessive step and institute change. But not Augusta.

[Sean_A]

Can Augusta be counted on to provide dry conditions to run the ball onto the many uphill greens at the Masters? 

I always thought it was a bit odd to use TOC as the inspiration for the design, but then hold the Masters at a time when running the ball is often a waste of time.  The course would need to be far firmer for pros to consider this as a viable option.

Ciao

[Conley Hurst]

Per Phil Mickelson's comments, I'm fine with lengthening the 5th by 30 yards. But I wish they'd then shorten the 7th by 30-40 yards as well. That'd be quite the statement in an age when courses seem to only be getting longer and longer. Plus, it seems like the players tend to agree that that hole doesn't work in its current state.

[Jim Nugent]

Can Augusta be counted on to provide dry conditions to run the ball onto the many uphill greens at the Masters? 


I always thought it was a bit odd to use TOC as the inspiration for the design, but then hold the Masters at a time when running the ball is often a waste of time.  The course would need to be far firmer for pros to consider this as a viable option.

Ciao

Having never seen the site in person, it looks to me like ANGC now offers very few ground game options, firm turf or not.  Is running the ball onto the green a good choice on more than 2 holes?   

But is the ground game what Mac and Bobby had in mind when they said TOC inspired the design?  I thought it was more about options, wide fairways, no rough and few trees, contoured greens, playability for scratch and bogey golfers alike.   

[Erik J. Barzeski]

This should be an exercise for the public to realize the insane steps courses have to go to in order to stay relevant in today's game.

I don't see it that way. I see it as a completely unnecessary change to make a hole that already played over par play, what, even more over par?

[Pete Lavallee]

It’s a hole inspired by the Road Hole, which also plays well above par. The R&A deemed it necessary to lengthen that hole too; coincidence?

[Jeff_Brauer]

If there was ever a course that should lengthen to accommodate tour pros, it's ANGC, no?  Yes, there is member play to consider but those tees are still in place, no?


If not dedicated to being a tournament host like ANGC, I can't see other courses doing this, but don't object too much there.

[Joe Hancock]

If there was ever a course that should lengthen to accommodate tour pros, it's ANGC, no?  Yes, there is member play to consider but those tees are still in place, no?


If not dedicated to being a tournament host like ANGC, I can't see other courses doing this, but don't object too much there.

And as such, if ever there was a tournament that could implement a tournament ball to ebb the trend of lengthening golf courses worldwide, ANGC and The Masters is the frontrunner, no?

[Jeff_Brauer]

If there was ever a course that should lengthen to accommodate tour pros, it's ANGC, no?  Yes, there is member play to consider but those tees are still in place, no?


If not dedicated to being a tournament host like ANGC, I can't see other courses doing this, but don't object too much there.

And as such, if ever there was a tournament that could implement a tournament ball to ebb the trend of lengthening golf courses worldwide, ANGC and The Masters is the frontrunner, no?

Absolutely, if they chose to go that direction.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

So… a few people I know should have a little insight have suggested to me that it's not about toughening up the hole or anything like that, but simply about removing or alleviating the congestion around the 4th green/5th tee area.

Which is suggested in the original article, too.

So, chalk this up - perhaps - to a bit of an over-reaction. They may be doing it just to make traffic flow better on the course.

[James Brown]

If there was ever a course that should lengthen to accommodate tour pros, it's ANGC, no?  Yes, there is member play to consider but those tees are still in place, no?


If not dedicated to being a tournament host like ANGC, I can't see other courses doing this, but don't object too much there.

And as such, if ever there was a tournament that could implement a tournament ball to ebb the trend of lengthening golf courses worldwide, ANGC and The Masters is the frontrunner, no?

There’s a flaw in this logic.  Since acquiring more land and lengthening the course are relatively easy options for tackling the distance factor at ANGC, why would they ever get serious about a special ball situation, which would in effect benefit on clubs more than ANGC and be complicated as hell to make work.  It’s a tournament course. 

[Joe Hancock]

If there was ever a course that should lengthen to accommodate tour pros, it's ANGC, no?  Yes, there is member play to consider but those tees are still in place, no?


If not dedicated to being a tournament host like ANGC, I can't see other courses doing this, but don't object too much there.

And as such, if ever there was a tournament that could implement a tournament ball to ebb the trend of lengthening golf courses worldwide, ANGC and The Masters is the frontrunner, no?

There’s a flaw in this logic.  Since acquiring more land and lengthening the course are relatively easy options for tackling the distance factor at ANGC, why would they ever get serious about a special ball situation, which would in effect benefit on clubs more than ANGC and be complicated as hell to make work.  It’s a tournament course.

Are you sure that obtaining land (money, lawyers, time) and remodeling (disruption, money, time, designers, etc.) is easier than telling a ball manufacturer to build a ball to certain specifications? Maybe my logic is flawed, but I’m not sure of it yet. Besides, the ball, if done well the first time, wouldn’t need to undergo change every year, which seems to be the case with the course....in large part because nothing is being done to stabilize ball characteristics.

[Tim Martin]

I think they will continue to go the route of lengthening and tweaking the design to combat the distance issue. That said they could come up with their own ball specs with none of the problems that would arise from doing it with the other Majors or on the PGA or European Tours. Additionally they could select one manufacturer for said tournament ball and nobody is going to have any say. If players and or ball sponsors and other manufacturers don’t like it well too bad. I don’t see a lot of players passing on the Masters so ANGC is holding all the cards regardless of the direction they go in. Omnipotence is a nice down card.