Columbia Edgewater with Bill McBride's past comments

[Garland Bayley]

I have never played this course, but I took the opportunity of attending the LPGA event there last summer to take pictures from outside the ropes. I am hoping those who have played and love this Macan gem will comment on the holes as they see appropriate. I actually thought perhaps Bill McBride could contribute to this thread when I did it, but unfortunately just as I was about to push the button to start this thread I saw Ward had started a thread letting us know that Bill has just passed away. RIP Ace McBride.

Pete Pittock supplied a 1936 aerial so we can see the differences between then and now. One significant change to note is the original clubhouse was across the road from the course. It burned down so at least 10 and 9 were shortened to make room for a new club house on the same side of the road as the course.

1936columbia_edgewaterRouting on Flickr

RoutingNS by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

#1 limited two shot reachability in Macan lingo. Par 5 for the rest of us.

1936columbia_edgewater01 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater01 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

If you click on the link below, it will take you to the course tour on the clubs website where you can click ? to learn how to get yardages, see close ups of the greens, go to other holes, etc.

https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/columbiaedgewatercc/aerial.htm

20170831_0101OneTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0102OneLandingArea by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0104OneShortApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0105OneGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Tim Passalacqua]

I am curious to see and learn more about this course.  I have always heard positive things about this club.  From what I understand, you can get a nice game there, a lot of members are good players.

[Garland Bayley]

As can be seen in the pictures of #1, there are ponds on the course. The course is close to the Columbia river, so there are naturally low swampy areas in the property. Apparently some of the ponds have been created in these low areas to formalize the boundaries of the wetland. I haven't been on property enough to determine if all ponds are from natural lowlands.

Although the first hole would be in what Macan classified as a hole on the boundary of reachablity in two shots, the danger presented by the ponds would preclude everyone but the most talented from taking on the danger. You know the likes of Michelle and Lexi.

[Garland Bayley]

Routing by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

#2 drive and pitch

This is my favorite hole on the course as an outside observer. Of the tee, how far do you hit it, and what is your target on that line. Driving all out will probably leave you deep in the hollow below the green with not exactly the best place to approach the green from.

1936columbia_edgewater02 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater02 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0201TwoTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_02Tee by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0202TwoApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0203TwoBunkering by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0204TwoGreen1 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

#3 Three shot hole

According to Riste's biography of Macan, building three shot holes was not typical of Macan and his philosophy. His target yardage was 6200 to 6400 yards for a par 72. Clearly there has been length added to the course as the middle set of tees measure 6380 for a par 71. I have to wonder if this hole has been lengthened to make it into a three shotter, as losing 100 yards would still keep it within the overall length he desired.

The uniqueness of this hole is that it is in a half-pipe. Half-pipes have a precedence in Oregon as Astoria has four half-pipe par 4s. The difference here is that the greens at Astoria are in the half-pipe, which I think adds more interest/quirk than this hole at Columbia Edgewater.

1936columbia_edgewater03 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater03 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0301ThreeTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_03TeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0302ThreeLandingArea by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0302ThreeLandingAreaRight by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0303ThreeApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0304GreenPitch by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0305ThreeGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0307ThreeLookingBack by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0306ThreeSequoiaView by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[RJ_Daley]

Sorry to say, this is not a course I would relish to play a couple time a week.  I also played Eastmoreland and North Course at the Reserve.  Whilst not actually playing Edgewater, I think I'd pick the Reserve as first choice.  We have many greatly treed courses here as well.  But, I can't think of one top quality course here that 'feels' quite as claustrophobic as this... pictures not always telling all, I admit.   

[Garland Bayley]

Dick,

I like you have played North and Eastmoreland, but not Edgewater. I would pick Edgewater every time over those other two. If Bill were with us, he would tell you the trees appear far worse in pictures than in reality. That is not to say they couldn't stand thinning, but there are far worse out here.

[Pete_Pittock]

Garland,
This could be a good tour. C-E is where good players congregate and at one time C-E may have had the best percentage of low handicap golfers in the US. At OGA team championships C-E usually fields two or three teams and even the 3rd team is usually in contention. The 1955 Walker Cup team had two C-E members, Bruce Cudd and Dick Yost. Amongst its pros were Jerry Mowlds, Dan Hixson and Gene "Bunny" Mason, the last one one of Bill McBride's go to anecdotes. A top 100 teachers and two architects! While Macan's routing remains intact, there is very little of his work remaining.


When the tours come to town (it held a number of PGA events in the 50s and 60s) the nines are reversed from the inside/outside loops to outside/inside loops. Garland's tour starts with the inside sequence, which matches their scorecard.


I have played there about 10-15 times and been a rules official there at least double that.


One day I got a call from Jim Urbina, who had a Portland layover. Squired him around C-E, Riverside and Colwood, all
Macan courses near the airport. Outside of an old routing map of Colwood, he concluded there was little Macan groundwork left

#1.  The green area has been extensively reworked, the green is doubled in size and the hole has been extended about 25 yards. Right side water is usually out of play unless extricating from a too left side tee shot
#2.  Also one of my favorite holes. The pictures do not do justice to the elevation of the green above the low point. Unless the green is driveable a laid up tee shot is advisable.
#3   This was another reachable par 5. It has been extended about 50 yards and the green moved 25 yds to the right.
The rest of the inside loop is pretty much the same as it has been although most greens are reworked.

[Garland Bayley]

...

When the tours come to town (it held a number of PGA events in the 50s and 60s) the nines are reversed from the inside/outside loops to outside/inside loops. Garland's tour starts on the inside loop.

...

There is room around the 9th green for setting up  viewing stands. That is why you will see stands when we get to 9, as the 9s are reversed for tour events. I am posting in the order everyone else playing it will see, 1-18.

[Garland Bayley]

...
#3   This was another reachable par 5. It has been extended about 50 yards and the green moved 25 yds to the right.
The rest of the inside loop is pretty much the same as it has been.

This explains why the hole as it is now is outside a typical Macan layout. Shortening this hole brings the course closer to his ideal of 6 holes that border on reachability in two.

I thought perhaps the green would have been moved on this hole and almost said so when I posted my commentary.

[Garland Bayley]

#4 One-shotter

Macan typically had 4 one-shotters in his courses, and at hole four we have the first one.

1936columbia_edgewater04 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater04 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0401FourTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0402FourHazard by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0403FourGreenBack by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

#5 Drive and pitch

With large sequoia trees on the corner of this dogleg, it appears a good drive is essential. This shows a shortcoming of treed courses as it takes recovery shots out of play, and forces plotting an indirect path to the green and not reaching the putting surface in the standard number of shots. Unfortunately, this has been adopted as how golf should be by a huge portion of the golfing public.

1936columbia_edgewater05 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater05 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0501FiveTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0502FiveApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0503FiveApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0504FiveGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0505FiveGreenBack by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Jon Wiggett]

Garland,


the course looks like a typical Swiss golf course. Certainly the bunkering, contours and green complexes look very good but it looks like it is ruined by all those trees. Is it really so incredibly tight as your photos suggest?


Jon

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,


the course looks like a typical Swiss golf course. Certainly the bunkering, contours and green complexes look very good but it looks like it is ruined by all those trees. Is it really so incredibly tight as your photos suggest?


Jon

Let me take a look on Google Earth and get back to you.

[Garland Bayley]

Looks pretty wide open compared to a lot of the courses around here.

Macan was a disciple of MacKenzie, and preferred trees in groups not lines. I don't actually know the history of CE with respect to trees, but there certainly are groupings of the biggest trees.

MacKenzie of course said that the greatest shots he had seen were recovery shots around groups of trees.

[Garland Bayley]

#6 if 350 is the border between Macan's drive and pitch holes, and what he calls drive and iron holes; and if the white tee lengths are indicative of what he built, then this is the third and final drive and pitch hole, thereby matching his "formula" of three per course. It also means that all three are in the first 6 holes of the course. But, since the course is configured as an inside loop followed by an outside loop it would be understandable that there would be less room on the inside loop to extend the holes longer on the inside.

The hole doglegs fairly sharply right. If you drive left, you are left with a more open approach to the green. If you drive right, you of course are left with a shorter approach.

1936columbia_edgewater06-07 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater06-07 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0601SixTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0602SixLandingArea by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0603SixGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Pete_Pittock]

Garland,
    the course looks like a typical Swiss golf course. Certainly the bunkering, contours and green complexes look very good but it looks like it is ruined by all those trees. Is it really so incredibly tight as your photos suggest?

Jon

 
It has been a few years since I last played CECC. Probably a 50 yard wide corridor, rough is usually 1 1/4 - 1 1/2".  I never felt constrained by the trees, but knew I would be in them a couple of times. For me the two hardest driving holes were 4 and 6.
#4 because I would be leery of left trees on the tee shot and consequently bring the right trees into play on the approach.
#6 because it is a considerable dogleg and I would hit through the fairway into the left trees to avoid the right corner and open up the hole from the green right-fronting bunker.

[Garland Bayley]

#7 one shotter

This is the longest par 3 on the course. Fairly level but steep drop off the back of the green.

1936columbia_edgewater06-07 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater06-07 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0702SevenGreen by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0703SevenGreenRear by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Garland Bayley]

#8 drive and iron hole

This is not a memorable hole for me, so I don't have much to say. The massive trees seen in the picture are there to screen a view of the maintenance facility from the course.

1936columbia_edgewater08 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater08 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0801EightTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0802EigntGreenBack by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Pete_Pittock]

8 non memorable? Triple level green. Along with #16 (if played as a 4 par) this probably plays the most over par. Putting is difficult, but not near as hard as playing a close-in recovery shot.

[Garland Bayley]

Remember Pete, I have never actually played the course.

[Jon Wiggett]

Garland, Pete,


thanks for the answers. It does look an interesting course.


Jon

[Garland Bayley]

It would appear that TD has rated 4 courses in the Portland, OR area with the following scores.
Waverly 7
Pumpkin Ridge Witch Hollow 6
Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek 5
Columbia Edgewater 5

I should note that he did these ratings after Gil Hanse updated Waverly and removed tons of trees.

[Garland Bayley]

#9 Drive and iron

With a pond fronting the green on the left, probably one best place the drive near the fairway bunker on the right to open up more of the front of the green for approach. I am not a fan of ponds, so I wonder what the original green complex was like. I don't think Macan used such water hazards to guard greens. Macan's philosophy was no green side bunkers past the halfway point of the green. Macan wished to encourage the bold approach so I suspect the bunkers at the back are not original, and if the pond was original strongly struck shots to clear it should not be penalized by a bunker in the back.

1936columbia_edgewater09 on Flickr

ColumbiaEdgewater09 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0901NineTeeShot by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0903NineApproach by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0902NineLandingArea by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0904NineGreenFront by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

20170831_0905NineGreenBack by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

[Pete_Pittock]

Garland,
Why did you park the cart so close to the green ?  As you surmised earlier, the pond was a low area, maybe swampy, as was the case with #4. The fairway bunkering has been changed since my first encounter,