Scotland > Painswick May 2004

« **on:** October 13, 2003, 04:55:43 PM »

As always, at least half the fun of a trip is planning it. I am committed to the May 2004 Painswick event to the extent that I have purchased two tickets (my brother and me) and rented a car. I am nothing if not impulsive/compulsive.

We will arrive late afternoonin St Andrews (after arriving that morning at Gatwick, connecting after a layover via British Airways to Edinburgh and renting a car) on Saturday, May 8. Question: how long does it take to drive to St Andrews from Edinburgh airport. (We are supposed to arrive in Edinburgh at 2 pm).

So then are most courses open on Sunday? I know the Old Course isn't, but what about New and Eden?

Then we'll have Monday and Tuesday and early Wednesday to play around St Andrews prior to a lengthy train ride from Edinburgh where we'll turn in the rental car, to Stroud near Painswick.

Given that schedule and the overpowering desire to play TOC as many times as possible but also North Berwick....... how long is the drive to North Berwick from St Andrews? Maybe we should drive to North Berwick on Tuesday and spend the night, playing Wednesday morning before entraining for Stroud.

What about Crail? Is it a can't miss? Which to play between New and Eden and Jubilee?

Please excuse the rambling, I'm getting excited and love the planning!

« **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2003, 04:58:17 PM »

Bill, It is about 2 hours drive. TOC is closed but the New, Jubalie and Eden are open as is Kingsbarns. Carnoustee is too. N Berwick is also open on sunday and Greywalls sometimes has Monday times at muirfield. Eden is distant third. Crail is great but after the big ones. John

« **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2003, 05:05:50 PM »

Bill:

Remember it stays light pretty late that time of year. Playing TOC the arrival day likely isn't out of the question....

Getting the tee time will be the tough thing. If you really do want to play TOC multiple times, really the only way as a visitor to do so is to work it through a travel company. Perry Golf, Wide World of Golf, something like that. The hotels each get certain times and they buy such from them... You can can also work with the local hotels directly, but that takes a way bigger effort. Ballot might work, but damn for a little extra $$$ you can make it a sure thing, and that to me is worth it. It's also darn fun to stay at the Dunvegan or one of the other local SA hotels...

NB is about an hour's drive past Edinburgh from St. Andrews. Carnoustie is about 45 minutes from SA, maybe less. Each are worth checking out without a doubt...

Don't listen to naysayers here, btw - Kingsbarns is damn good and well worth playing. That's right there 15 mins max from St. Andrews. Crail is also very close, both courses there worth doing from what I hear. Muirfield is over just short of N. Berwick, but if you want to play in May 2004, you might already be too late... of course JB is right, stay at Greywalls and anything is possible, but it may well be already booked, as word is all normal visitor slots are filled over a year in advance. This is also where a good travel company can work wonders, though.... and a day at Muirfield is one of those golf experiences that simply must be done in one's lifetime, so do check it out....

You have many options, many ways to occupy your time before taking on Painswick... ALL will be worthwhile without a doubt.

TH

« **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2003, 05:18:33 PM »

Bill there are alot cheaper ways than Perry to assist in TOC slots especially in May.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2003, 05:20:55 PM »

JB is right, there are cheaper ways to do it, but they would require a bit more effort, and if he wants multiple rounds there, well... All I'm saying is a company like PerryGolf can make things happen, simply and easily. They do extract their pound of flesh, though!

TH

« **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2003, 05:29:18 PM »

I haven't been able to get over to Scotland this year but friends that have were walking right on to TOC. It is SLOW over there. St.A Bay is biting into TOC traffic and I understand there was another price increase on the Old.
Another consideration is Cruden Bay. With the highway most all the way from St.A, we got up there in 2 hrs on the last visit.
Elie is also worth a visit.
Should visit Crail to see what helped inspire Golf in the Kingdom. The par 3's are great. The cave is cool, too.
R3

« **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2003, 06:14:11 PM »

I am with all that but the St Andrews Bay is not biting into anything except its line of credit. TOC should be faster and not slower than Kingsbarns and the other courses Amricans frequent.

« **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2003, 07:32:55 PM »

Bill Mc,

As you are a Great American, I have scheduled a flight into Edinburgh arriving this Sunday a.m. and will drive to St. Andrews for a few days. Then, back through Edinburgh to play N. Berwick. I shall document the precise times. All of this, just for you

Please advise if I can be of further assistance.

Regards,

Mike

« **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2003, 07:49:39 PM »

Mike Hendren, thank you, thank you, you are a friend indeed. In addition to those critical driving times, please just take notes on everything, we need all the G2 intelligence we can get!

John B and Huck, please elaborate on "cheaper ways than Perry to assist in TOC slots." As it happens, we have cousins of friends in St A who can help us with the cost (as their guests) but not tee times from what I understand. We will be attempting the ballot! Can we just roll by TOC starter shack on Saturday late afternoon?

All, what is the best way to book tee times at the other courses? (I know about Muirfield and Carnoustie, but what about Eden, Crail, etc?).

Thanks to everybody for gracious assistance. This is addressed to the Travel Advice division of GCA!

« **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2003, 05:28:21 AM »

Bill,
Seems like a lot of driving in what seems like a short stay in Scotland.
If TOC and North Berwick are absolute musts, possibly staying in Gullane and playing there is an option to pursue. If staying at Greywalls can gain admission to Muirfield then no contest. If not the Golf Hotel is real good with great food and in addition a must meeting Archie Baird comes into play near the Gullane clubhouse. Gullane 1 isn't talked about too much on here but is well worth playing as well as the other courses. Dunbar is also fun and not far away.
IMO touring Fife, other than TOC, and East Lothian on such a tight schedule would be very tiring. At least for an old guy like me.

« **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2003, 06:37:47 AM »

Bill,
With a surname such as yours, you should be allocating a little time to visit a Kilt Shop!!!!!

Martin.

« **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:17:07 AM »

Bill, there is a how much can you play to all this. There is no way to play all you want in a short time. You have seen over the years so many lists. Mine for these 2 areas in order of priority is TOC twice, Muirfield, N Berwick, Carnoustee, Gullane 1, New, Kingsbarns, N Berwick again, Crail, Dunbar, Jubalie. then you have the Elie and Lundin group on the south end of Fife, then Luffness New, Gullane 2, Panmure by Carnoustee. Scotscraig long before you get to the St. Andrews Bays of the world and before you even think of the Dukes course. The Kings and queens are very good courses near here and would be right around the above Crail area but I did not go to scotland the first time to play parkland golf. Actually we did play them on my first trip and i have not been back. lol Give me the links my man give me the links.I may have forgotten some but trust Finnigans book when in doubt on any issue.

« **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2003, 09:44:39 AM »

Bill - given you only have the 4 days really to play (Sun-Mon-Tue-Wed) take heed of JB's advice - there is only so much you can do, and you're gonna want to be playing golf more than driving a car. So I'd say his order of preference is damn near right on (I'd only put Kingsbarns above SA New myself), so take them in that order, work out what you can.

As for doing it cheaper, check your IM. I don't give away all my secrets for general public consumption.

TH

« **Reply #13 on:** October 14, 2003, 10:26:00 AM »

Bill, can I be your brother? From my experience in the area this summer, driving times are generally underestimated (it often takes longer). If you have not driven on the left side much before, watch your mirror on the driver's side as well as the left front bumper. MAKE SURE YOU RESERVE A CAR WITH AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION even if you are used to a standard. Unless you are ambidextrous, shifting with the left hand while trying to navigate the traffic circles will make you very uptight. Give yourself as much time to unwind as possible, and don't get in a hurry. At TOC, the marshalls will keep you moving (don't take it personally), and some of the caddies are like horses wanting to get back to the barn. Edinburgh is a wonderful city; if you get a little stiff or golf weary, take a little time and see the sights (I wish I had).

« **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:18:36 AM »

Thanks, guys. I understand my schedule is ambitious, but in reality I'm not planning to play all those courses, just looking at options. I do want to play TOC or other Trust courses, and do want to play North Berwick. I do have cousins of friends who are locals in St A, so should help with TOC guest fee if not access. What we'll have is Sat p.m., two rounds Sun, two rounds Mon, two rounds Tue, Wed a.m. then train to Painswick. Since the train to Painswick can be taken from Edinburgh, what I'm now contemplating is driving to North Berwick Tuesday lunch time for a p.m. round there, spend the night, play NB in the a.m. and then take the train. This gives us Sat p.m., all day Sunday, all day Monday, and a.m. Tuesday in St A. That is six opportunities to play in the immediate St Andrews area, and hopefully through the ballot or other deviousness we'll be able to play a couple of rounds on the Old Course. There are obviously enough good options there to fill our all too brief time. Question: if you are in but don't make the ballot, is there then time to get over to the tee at New, Eden or Jubilee to play pretty quickly? I'm not too sure how this process works.

Looks like Ed Getka will be in the area and could join us for a round or two. Who else?

« **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:21:18 AM »

Quote from: Bill_McBride on October 14, 2003, 11:18:36 AM

Question: if you are in but don't make the ballot, is there then time to get over to the tee at New, Eden or Jubilee to play pretty quickly

Yes. Go to the Links Trust web site, it explains the process pretty well as I recall.

BTW, Tuesdays are guest days at Muirfield... I'd highly advise NOT ruling that out... it is one of those "must do in one's lifetime" things... If you don't want to involve a travel company, fair enough - but at least write them a letter and TRY. Work NB around that if it happens (maybe pm Monday if not am Wed?).

TH

« **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:29:27 AM »

Lou, you can't be my brother but you are certainly invited to join us! I fully appreciate your advice re driving, have done so in England (including that horrendous roundabout as you enter London from Heathrow!!

) on a number of occasions. Every time you fire up the ignition, you must tell yourself, "I am driving on the left side!" Otherwise you will be killed in a serious accident within 30 seconds.

FBD, I'm much more an Irishman than Scot, but do plan to consume copious amounts of the local single malt. My favorite is the Balvenie Doublewood. What's yours?

« **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:34:48 AM »

Bill get with me. all this is easy. I will go over the rules and procedure with you.

« **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:41:44 AM »

Bill - If you are going to be in the St Andrews area for three days then don't worry... you WILL get to play TOC. It's not as hard as the travel planners would like you to believe. 50% of the tee times for TOC are allocated via the ballot. If you are not successful on the ballot, park yourself at the starters hut and cue up for a position to fill out group with less than four players. Many groups do not have four players and the starter will do everything he can to fill those groups. It represents a lot of revenue for the Links Trust, so they will do everything they can to get you out. Believe it or not, there are no-shows almost every day for tee times that were assigned a year in advance! But, at the time of year you are traveling you shouldn't have a problem being successful on the ballot.

TOC is the only course closed on Sunday. All of the other courses are open, and they are relatively easy to get on. We played the New Course on a Saturday by just walking up to the starters window... no tee time, no wait!

If you can get accommodations at The Dunvegan book them. It is reasonably priced with a perfect location... about 100 yards from the first tee at TOC. And, the bar is quite a hangout for traveling golfers and caddies. Also, the owners, Jack and Sheena Willoughby, will book your golf for you at the courses you want to play and register you for the ballot. You will love them and their friendly service. Here is a link to their website: Dunvegan Hotel

As for courses, try to play Kingsbarns if you can. It is expensive, but it may be the best course in Scotland. Here is link to the Kingsbarns site: Kingsbarns

The New and Jubilee are both outstanding links courses (some say the New is better than TOC!) and they are both moderately priced, around £50. Here is a link to the Links Trust site: St Andrews Links Trust

If you are going to Painswick after visiting Scotland you might want to consider taking the train from Edinburgh. The train leaves nearly every hour and takes you directly to London where you can secure local transportation. If would be a great way to see the countryside without having to drive. There is even a sleeper train that leaves around midnight that will give you more time for golf and save you the cost of a hotel for that day. If you decide to take the train you can set up shop at one of the small hotels in (or near) North Berwick after you leave St Andrews. From North Berwick you can play the West course there, Gullane#1, and Dunbar. Then catch the train from NB to Edinburgh (about a 30 minute ride) and connect to London. It would be an efficient use of your time.

I am planning a similar trip to Scotland => London for June. Feel free to contact me via email or phone (864.288.7866) if you want to compare notes.

« **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:50:45 AM »

Well then there you have it. You need no further advice, Bill. The eloquent Mr. Whitaker has summed it up perfectly.

My only caution would be COUNTING on the ballot is a crapshoot that you may or may not want to take. Oh, it PROBABLY will work, hell it did for me for one round... But do you want to put all your eggs in that basket? That's for you to decide.

I too stayed at the Dunvegan, and our buddy Mr. Hendren will be there next week. It's becoming quite the GCA hangout! It is pretty darn cool also to walk down the street with clubs in hand, heading off to play. I'd make that a must. If the Dunvegan is booked, Sheena can point you elsewhere.

TH

« **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2003, 12:17:17 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on October 14, 2003, 11:50:45 AM

I too stayed at the Dunvegan, and our buddy Mr. Hendren will be there next week. TH

Tom,

I have this minute ordered a new golf bag with "Buddy of Tom Huckaby" embroidered on the ball pocket. Now, anywhere I go, I'm in like Flynn.

I am having trouble concentrating this week. Gosh, I hope the Emperor doesn't call again. Tommy is so contagious that I never get any sleep after he calls.

Jonesing,

Mike

« **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2003, 12:46:16 PM »

Just got back from a similar trip with limited time. Travelling alone TOC was not a problem. Showed up at the starters shack at "O" Dark Thirty and got out in the first time allocated to the R&A at 9AM.

The courses (not TOC, but very helpful) were all EXTREMELY helpful in arranging times etc. EMail and letters should get you all the information you need prior to your visit. Club events must be worked around.

Two hours from St Andrews to N.Berwick is a pretty good estimate. Have a navigator to lead the way. Driving solo I got pretty fouled up in Edinborough.

Careful on parking in Ediborough. They have Nazi Storm troopers everywhere ticketing cars. Each street has a ticket dispenser. I parked for about ten minutes while checking into my hotel and got a $50 parkng ticket

I had never been and now I can't wait to go back.

« **Reply #22 on:** October 14, 2003, 12:49:24 PM »

Quote from: Mike_Hendren on October 14, 2003, 12:17:17 PM

Tom,

I have this minute ordered a new golf bag with "Buddy of Tom Huckaby" embroidered on the ball pocket. Now, anywhere I go, I'm in like Flynn

You of course got the special gold-leaf model, reserved for those who have hit one of my clubs, didn't you, Mike? If not, let me know asap - the plant manager will get an earful.

I can't WAIT to hear from you when you get back... You make sure and give full reports, you hear?

TH

« **Reply #23 on:** October 14, 2003, 12:49:54 PM »

Here are a few phone numbers and websites which may help you to check out availability before trying to book through a travel company:

St Andrews:
According to the St Andrews info brochure 'Applications are acknowledged and held on file until October/November when they are processed in order of receipt for the following year'
St Andrews information: www.standrews.org.uk
St Andrews bookings: www.golfagent.com
St Andrews reservations +44-1334-477036 (same number for all courses)
e-mail linkstrust@standrews.org.uk

Accommodation/tourist enquiries: +44-1334-472112

Crail:
Office and advance bookings +44-13333-450686
Golf reservations +44-13333-450967
E-mail: crailgolfs@aol.com
Website: www.golfagent/clubsites/crail

Gullane:

Tel +44-1620-842255
E-mail bookings@gullanegolfclub.com
Website: www.gullanegolfclub.com

Carnoustie

http://www.carnoustiegolfclub.com/
Bookings: +44-1241-853789
Starter: +44-1241-853249
General tel: +44-1241-852-480

Elie (The Golf House Club)

Tel +44-1333-330327

Kingsabarns

http://www.kingsbarns.com/reservations.html

North Berwick

Tel (secretary) +44-1620-895040

Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers (Muirfield)

Tel +44-1620-842123

Musselburgh Old Course (where you can hire hickory shafts to play what remains of the old Open Championship links)

www.musselburgholdlinks.co.uk

Leven Links

http://www.leven-links.com/index.htm

Lundin Links

http://www.lundingolfclub.co.uk/Default.htm

Ladybank

http://www.ladybankgolf.co.uk/

Scotscraig

http://www.scotscraig-golfclub.co.uk/

Gleneagles

http://www.gleneagles.com/

Enjoy!

« **Reply #24 on:** October 14, 2003, 01:16:44 PM »

Bill-

Though I don't take rejection well, I may very well see you in May. It appears that my son may have something post-graduation on his agenda other than playing golf with his old man, so maybe I'll award myself a present as well. I won't know until the first part of next year, but perhaps we can coordinate something. Think Muirfield! I missed it this year and greatly regret it. BTW, Carnoustie is world class.

Mark-

Are there any insides on getting a time at Muirfield (other than through tour operators or writing to the secretary)?

News:

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