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MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do you score better when you play faster?
« on: January 26, 2018, 11:34:46 AM »
In the "Less than 14 Clubs" thread, Tom Doak mentioned that he generally plays better when he plays faster.   That struck a nerve with me, and I went back and reviewed my golf rounds in the past year and found that almost invariably, the longer the round, the worse my score.

Conversely, my fastest rounds on foot were most of my best scores.   

I think there's a couple of reasons, at least for me, that this tends to be true.

First, I think I'm a streaky player and when I get it going good I don't want to be delayed.   Too much thought time tends to affect my game adversely...as a friend of mine states, the mind is a terrible thing to use on a golf course.

But I also think part is physical.   Although I exercise regularly, I don't do a lot of "standing around" during the work week, mostly sitting, and during slower rounds so much time is just spent standing in place that I think that wears on the body.   Walking at a brisk pace on the other hand keeps me loose.

Finally, most of my fastest rounds don't include a lot of time for distractions like my phone, social media, etc. where I too often lose focus. 

What do others here experience?   

To make this somewhat on-topic, I also find that I play much better when walking than riding a cart, so a course that provides a good walk is infinitely more interesting to me than one where I'm forced for whatever reason to ride in a cart.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Peter Pallotta

Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 11:51:38 AM »
Mike - my experience is that I play *too* fast. It's a result of taking up the game later in life and reading about 'slow play' and being embarrassed at holding others up with my ineptitude. Even now that I'm a decent enough golfer I can't shake the memory of those glares from (supposedly) better golfers behind me as I struggled to get it out of a bunker or took some time trying to make my putt for bogey.
I think I can take in a lot of visual information about a golf hole and make a decision about what club to hit and where fairly quickly; but I rarely stay enough in the moment to take even that short amount of time.
It's one of the reasons I like to play in the very late afternoons and by myself: without the real or imagined pressure of time or other golfers I sometimes manage to find the right pace for me.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 11:51:54 AM »
Nothing slows down the game and hurts your score like putting everything out and playing by the "rules". It's hand in hand with having your score posted on a board for everyone to see.


Odd how the rake and runners who are up your ass every weekend are the same guys who take 6 hours in a member/guest. Yet somehow shoot 8 strokes under their handicap. Seems like a majority of higher handicapped players score lower when they play slower. On paper anyway.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 12:18:44 PM »
The quicker I play has a positive effect on both scoring and enjoyment for me. Match play and ESC have done their part to keep things moving but it’s tough to dissuade the card and pencil guys from putting everything out.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »
So PGA Tour guys are either:


The exception to the rule....


Or


Could be shooting even insane lower scores if they sped up. 

Nick Prafke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 12:47:19 PM »
 I believe a lot of amateurs let their head get in the way and so playing faster can help them avoid that. PGA players probably have a little more control over their shot process so they are less likely to fall victim to over thinking.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 12:56:58 PM »
So PGA Tour guys are either:


The exception to the rule....


Or


Could be shooting even insane lower scores if they sped up.


They are always the exception to the rule.


The reason(s) I play better, faster are
a)  Everything John K said, which boils down to not worrying about my score, and
b)  Being fast helps me stay in the flow of the moment, and not worry about outside factors (including my score)


Guys competing on Tour have to worry about their score.  However, in casual rounds, my observation is that they are more inclined to play fast and loose, and they often play better than their norm. 


When I played with Ian Baker-Finch a few years ago, at Crystal Downs, he was awesome from tee to green, but didn't make any putts and shot 71 I think.  He said afterward that he'd thought somewhere mid-round he should be taking a little more time over his putts, but that he didn't want to ruin the experience by taking it more seriously.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 01:06:31 PM »
I tend to.

Or, rather than thinking of it this way, I find that when I play slowly I get into too much of a "hurry up and wait" type mode, wherein when it is my turn to hit finally, I almost rush the shot too much because I'm sick of waiting.

If I moderate my routine to be about the same time, then the pace doesn't really affect me very much at all. I can shoot the same scores and hit the same shots regardless of the overall pace.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 01:10:36 PM »
When I score better I'll take note.   ;D

I don't know honestly, it is a good question.  So much of pace is out of your control nowadays with people riding carts everywhere and not being time efficient, cart girls with food/beverage, players not playing provisionals, too many hazards are some courses which grinds play to a halt.  I don't know the actual figures, but my grandfather said he used to play in 3 hours or less each weekend and was always frustrated as he aged that with carts and issues I mentioned pace slowed.

If I'm playing well (which isn't scratch by any means), in the 70's is very good for me, then delays that making me think about that 3 wood to try to reach that par 5 in two is a mental test.  Like an opposing coach calling timeout to freeze the kicker before a field goal at the end of the game to make him think about it. My preference is to play faster, but I don't think that is up to us only with 7 minute tee times, etc.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 01:15:59 PM »
Speed of play seems to be quicker in limited number of club competitions. Perhaps less options means quicker play?
Atb



Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 01:43:25 PM »

From extensive personal experience I can state that beginners and higher handicappers play noticeably better when they play faster however slow play is caused more by taking to long to get to the ball and not being prepared to play when it is the players turn. This latter cause of slow play is the case for all standards of player.


Jon

Peter Pallotta

Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 01:55:11 PM »
As Jim S might ask in his pithy way:

By "playing better" you mean shooting a lower score, right?

Or is there some other metric that has nothing to do with getting the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes?

If so, how does playing either fast or slow have anything to do with playing better?

« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 01:59:13 PM by Peter Pallotta »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 02:03:17 PM »
If a round takes too long I lose strength in my legs.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2018, 02:15:14 PM »
However...


There certainly comes a point of diminishing return to faster play.  Its certainly seems to be a sweet spot, somewhere between not waiting after every shot and feeling rushed to hit the ball...


For example those who say they can do a 2 hour round on a regulation 18 hole course, and not feel rushed, i'm calling bullocks.  I've played as the first one out a few times, no one ahead of me, and a 3 hour round was a pretty decent pace...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 02:55:37 PM »
Kalen:


We have to do about a 2-hour pace for the Hundred Hole Hike, and I definitely have to hustle to keep that pace - but I still played better!

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2018, 03:13:50 PM »
I play best when we are first off the tee, and I am hungover.  It is very hard to say whether it is playing fast or not caring because my head and eyes hurt that is the cause.


Ira

Peter Pallotta

Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 03:36:30 PM »
I play best when we are first off the tee, and I am hungover.  It is very hard to say whether it is playing fast or not caring because my head and eyes hurt that is the cause.
Ira
:)
I remember once when an all night poker game actually went all night, with just enough time to sober up and have some coffee before teeing off. I was absolutely lights out fantastic...for the first 12 holes. The last 6 were a living nightmare! The gca.com angle? It was a throwback-style course by our own Ian Andrew, and clearly designed to be walked...and so like drunken knuckleheads, we did!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 03:38:37 PM by Peter Pallotta »

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 03:51:56 PM »
If a round takes too long I lose strength in my legs.


Ditto. And I would say that is more from doing too much standing and not enough walking.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 04:14:07 PM »
It's not just about speed for me, for maximum enjoyment and better play it's more about being able to move at the pace I like.

Who needs another excuse for playing like dog meat.   
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 04:20:12 PM »
Confirmation bias. Look it up.


-----


Well said, Sir Jim...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 05:56:18 PM »
I play best when we are first off the tee, and I am hungover.  It is very hard to say whether it is playing fast or not caring because my head and eyes hurt that is the cause.
Ira
:)
I remember once when an all night poker game actually went all night, with just enough time to sober up and have some coffee before teeing off. I was absolutely lights out fantastic...for the first 12 holes. The last 6 were a living nightmare! The gca.com angle? It was a throwback-style course by our own Ian Andrew, and clearly designed to be walked...and so like drunken knuckleheads, we did!





The Kid's got the Jack.


Ira

Peter Pallotta

Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 06:13:24 PM »
 :)
Just for that, you get to be Lancey Howard - The Man!

Please excuse the side-bar, Mike. I think I'm in love!

It isn't everyday that you run into a golfer who likes architecture, and who also appreciates the Cincinatti Kid!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:17:46 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2018, 06:52:32 PM »
YES

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2018, 08:13:57 PM »
Play faster than what?  I generally score worse when I play faster than I am comfortable with and worse when I play so slow so as to lose interest.  Hard to know which is worse because I hate being rushed about (especially for a leisure activity which costs a fortune), but if things aren't going well its good to get it over with  8) I don't have a set optimum time for scoring...much depends on the mood, weather, company, course etc. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you score better when you play faster?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2018, 10:05:40 AM »
Within a relevant range, say 3.5 - 4 hours for a walking foursome, probably score better slower than faster.  For sure, worse above 4 hours than faster than 3.5.  But much depends on the speed and contour of the greens, and the hole locations.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:07:49 AM by Lou_Duran »