Thought Experiment: How Many Clubs Do You Need?

[John Crowley]

For the past 4 years I have been playing with 8 or less. Makes carrying much easier.


Last Summer at my home course in MN played entire season with six. Rarely did I wish that I had a “missing” club (no more than once or twice a round).


Driver, 25* hybrid, 7i, 9i, 56*w, Putter. All irons are 7i length which enables a much wider range of distances I can hit each one.


For a two week period I kept track of every shot - 80-85% were with four clubs- driver, hybrid, 9i, Putter.


When I travel to other courses I sometime vary the clubs for the course. While in CA in the Winter I carry seven - adding a 4w. Shot my age (only once so far) with these seven.


Last Summer I competed in the MN Senior Am Grand Masters division for the first time (6 clubs).


The shotmaking challenges are enhanced - I love creating shots, it’s more fun.

[Tom_Doak]

Hundred Hole Hike days I go down to six clubs. Driver, 5, 7, 9, wedge, putter.
Last year I shot my low round of the year that day. I don't notice a bit of difference in score between using six clubs or my whole bag.

This has been my experience as well, one reason I started the thread.  For our day at St. Andrews I think I was down to five clubs ... I had 4-wood instead of 5-iron, and didn't carry both 9 and wedge.  It's easier to do this on links courses, with their open green fronts.  It was my lowest score ever on The Old Course and three of my lowest rounds of the year.  Of course, we were also playing way faster, and I play better when I can play fast.


Since then, I've gradually gone back to eight clubs, putting back the 5-iron, 8-iron and one wedge.  On American courses, it seems particularly important to have more graduated irons to deal with carrying bunkers at the fronts of greens.  That's why, if I had to set a limit, I'd limit the pros to five or six clubs:  that's the point where some shotmaking really comes into play.  But I'd love to see how many they chose to use, if there were strokes on the line for every additional club, and it wasn't just a one-time thing.

[Ira Fishman]

Didn't all of us over 55(?) start with a set comprised of driver, 3-wood, putter, 3,5,7,and 9 irons? Add a sand wedge and a hybrid and you're all set.

+1


The only things keeping me from going back to the beginning are (1) lighter bags so still easy to walk with 14 clubs and (2) the misplaced belief that 14 will enable me to play better. 


Ok, really only number 2.


Ira

[BHoover]

My own personal goal, one which I have mentioned to several friends, is to one day reach such a state of enlightenment that I can “play” an entire round of golf without the need for clubs. I would be able to visualize all the shots needed to fully experience all that the course demands. That is true enlightenment! Some day...

[Joe Zucker]

My own personal goal, one which I have mentioned to several friends, is to one day reach such a state of enlightenment that I can “play” an entire round of golf without the need for clubs. I would be able to visualize all the shots needed to fully experience all that the course demands. That is true enlightenment! Some day...

Brian,


Alan Shipnuck recently did a podcast on an South African pro named Wayne Western who took his own life last year.  In the podcast he talks a lot about how Wayne was an eccentric guy with interesting ideas about the game.  Wayne used to get a caddie and walk all 18 holes with his clubs, but never hitting a shot.  He would just imagine where each shot went and walk to the that spot.  Sounds like he had true enlightenment!


https://soundcloud.com/golf_podcast/wayne-westner-troubled-off-the-tee

[Ian Mackenzie]

What if the Rules stated, for every club you have in your bag, you must add one shot to your score?


Or two shots per club?


How many clubs would you want to carry?  My guess is there's no way it's 14.  Maybe ten.  Maybe five, depending on the player.


P.S.  Last month I Googled and found some YouTube excerpts for the one-club match at St. Andrews after The Open in 1984 ... which featured Ballesteros and Trevino vs. Aoki and Faldo.  They all used 5-irons.  They played the holes out at the far end of the course -- looked like maybe #6 through #13 -- and Seve made a bunch of pars with just his 5-iron.  Watching them try to hit a 5-iron as far as they could off #13 tee was probably the highlight.

Tom -


About 20 years ago, I read a golf book called "Five Iron". It was about a guy who learned to play golf in a prison yard using - you guessed it - only a 5 iron.


When he got out he competed on some sort on "one club tour" and, of course, triumphed wonderfully.


I swear I leant it to someone a few years ago and now realize they never returned it.
After a brief search on Amazon, I cant find it.


It was a fun read.


Cheers,
Ian


PS: Just found this write-up on it:https://www.amazon.in/Five-Iron-Roy-Orason/dp/096423923X


FIVE IRON is a suspense-filled mystery of murder on the golf course. Tim Ryan is accused of killing his father's assailant by crushing his head with a five iron. Tim Ryan, a young man of nineteen, is sentenced to twenty years in the state penitentiary for the crime. However, three of his friends believe there is more to the killing than is brought out in Tim's trial. They set out to get his sentence reduced or to have him exonerated by finding out who actually committed the crime. While Tim Ryan is in prison he is given a five iron with which he practices day & night under the direction of the warden's son. This earns him the name of Mr. Five Iron. One Club Golf Tournaments are introduced & soon Tim gains national notoriety. FIVE IRON keeps you in complete anticipation & suspense until the final chapter. FIVE IRON is a wonderful golf story that will attract the non-golfer as well as the golfer.

[Tom_Doak]

Wayne used to get a caddie and walk all 18 holes with his clubs, but never hitting a shot.  He would just imagine where each shot went and walk to the that spot.  Sounds like he had true enlightenment!


https://soundcloud.com/golf_podcast/wayne-westner-troubled-off-the-tee

Peter Jacobsen told me he used to do something similar when preparing for a tournament on a course he'd never played before.  He said he didn't want a bad shot the first time around to stay planted in his head, so before he played he would walk the course once and visualize good outcomes all the way around.

[Sean_A]

I have been playing with 10ish clubs tops for at least 10 years.  If I wasn't so cheap and lazy, I would buy more clubs regardless of how many I carried because I would interchange clubs depending on the course and conditions if I had them.  I think most golfers are this way so companies would still sell just as many clubs...maybe more if the concept of a permanent set was chucked. 

I reckon in summer on a dry links I could probably play with 7 clubs no problem...driver, 7 wood, 6 iron, 8 iron, wedge, sand wedge and putter...I often play with this set and sometimes 6 clubs depending on sand (I use 6 at my club a lot)...anything less than 6 feels wrong to me.

I think pros and top ams should play with 6 clubs.  I really don't think scoring would be worse, just more entertaining watching them earn the scores.

Ciao

[Chris Mavros]

Realistically, I could go to 7. 


Driver/ 5 hybrid/ 7i/ 9i/ AW/ 56*/ putter

[Carl Rogers]

I have done a lot of thinking about this and when I recover from hip surgeries by this summer, I will play with 10 clubs.  Age, loss of clubhead speed and my desire to carry and walk led me to re-think this problem. And finally, I go by more the loft of the actual club than by what is a "7 iron".


Putter
Driver
22 deg 7 fwy metal
25 deg hybrid
30 deg hybrid
35 deg iron
40 deg iron
45 deg iron
52 deg wedge (have debated going with a 50 deg)
58 deg wedge


...........have also thought about going to 6 deg difference between clubs

[Peter Pallotta]

As so many have said, it does indeed 'work'. For me it's:

3 Wood
5 Wood or 18 degree hybrid
4-6-8-PW
Sand Wedge
Putter

Maybe the main benefit (scoring wise) is that my tee shots rarely have enough distance to get into/reach the trouble the architect had planned for me

[David Wuthrich]

I think i could do this:


3 wood
Hybrid
6 iron
Wedge
Putter if I had to, but could putt with the 3 wood

[Joe Hancock]

No badge of honor for doing so, but I have played with 7 clubs in the bag for the past 4 years. The main reason was to lighten the load, but have found a lot more enjoyment due to the creativity required. I carry:


Titleist 975J Driver, which I can also hit off the deck
4, 6, 8, w, sw, p


I don’t carry an official hdcp, but I truly believe I give away less than two strokes per round with half the number of clubs allowed, and maybe even less because I have to weigh my options and play a bit more conservative. Maybe I’m better with half the clubs!

[Mark Fedeli]

I think about dropping clubs every time I prepare to play. I'm obsessed with shedding bag weight.


I rarely use my 3-wood or 4-iron on my home course. But I only play once a week, and each time I'm getting my bag ready I think about the few shots where those clubs were hugely important, that I couldn't have pulled off with anything else. It makes it very hard to leave them at home in case those shots arise again during this round I've been looking forward to all week. That's what burdens me.


I'm down to 13 right now, and really want to get to 10-11, even though I know I'd be fine with 8.

[Ken Moum]

PS: Just found this write-up on it:https://www.amazon.in/Five-Iron-Roy-Orason/dp/096423923X


FIVE IRON is a suspense-filled mystery of murder on the golf course. Tim Ryan is accused of killing his father's assailant by crushing his head with a five iron. Tim Ryan, a young man of nineteen, is sentenced to twenty years in the state penitentiary for the crime. However, three of his friends believe there is more to the killing than is brought out in Tim's trial. They set out to get his sentence reduced or to have him exonerated by finding out who actually committed the crime. While Tim Ryan is in prison he is given a five iron with which he practices day & night under the direction of the warden's son. This earns him the name of Mr. Five Iron. One Club Golf Tournaments are introduced & soon Tim gains national notoriety. FIVE IRON keeps you in complete anticipation & suspense until the final chapter. FIVE IRON is a wonderful golf story that will attract the non-golfer as well as the golfer.

FWIW, abebooks.com is my go to place to find stuff like this, they list books from booksellers all over the place, and sure enough there's a few of his books available.


https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=roy+orason&tn=&kn=&isbn=

K

[Jim_Kennedy]

That's why, if I had to set a limit, I'd limit the pros to five or six clubs:  that's the point where some shotmaking really comes into play.  But I'd love to see how many they chose to use, if there were strokes on the line for every additional club, and it wasn't just a one-time thing.

They'd probably all get together in the locker room and agree that everyone carries 14 = everyone starts the round w/the same number of penalty strokes.    [size=78%]     [/size]

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Six?

1. Driver
2. Hybrid
3. 5I
4. 7I
5. PW
6. Putter

I could probably shift down to a 4I and lose the hybrid and get to 5 if necessary. I've shot E with a 5-iron from 6400 yards. I was REALLY familiar with the course, though.

[Michael Dugger]

My starter set was 3W,3,5,7,9 & putter.  Seems close to what I'd select today if granted 7 clubs.


1W,3W,hyb,6,9,SW,Putter

[David_Tepper]

To repeat a post I made here on another thread barely 1 month ago:

In one of the pieces ("Europe in the Fall") in Herbert Warren Wind's anthology Following Through, he reports on the Braemar Professional 7-club tournament that was held at Turnberry in 1964.

You can find the actual New Yorker piece here:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1964/11/07/europe-in-the-fall

[Jeff Schley]

Love this topic, as I have played in numerous 3 club tournaments where I use 5 iron, wedge, putter.  I know many use their fairway metals or equator a wedge in their putting form, although I can do neither.)))

My putter right now isn't that good, so why should I save it?  I'd probably want two, hybrid and a wedge.  I can figure out how to play bad golf with 2 clubs from average golf with all.)

One thing this does it cause you to experiment with moving the ball back or up in your stance and closing or opening your clubface. It will surprise you what that club is capable of doing when manipulated.

[Thomas Dai]

Interesting how this thread has developed and what I read as general support.

Taking TD's initial idea a bit further how about a pre-determined set number of clubs, say 6 or 7, and penalty shots if you carry more and 'bonus'/reduction shots if you carry less.

atb

PS - If you've carried the same clubs for a while 14 check the grips. The clubs you use most often will most likely have the most worn grips. Should give you a hint as to which clubs you really need.

[Niall C]

When I was a member down at Silloth, the lowest score I had in competition off the medal tees was a 78 scored in the annual 5-club comp, when I was playing off 10. IIRC I was only 1 over after 10 before "blowing up" in the last few holes with a string of bogeys. I was only beaten by one of my playing partners, also off 10, who beat me with a better inward half.


From memory my 5 clubs were putter, sand-wedge, 7 iron, 5 iron and 5 wood with versatility in club the key, hence no driver. I also remember being very mindful of what the next shot would/might be and playing accordingly. It's amazing how strategic you become when you won't necessarily have the club in the bag to get you out of trouble.


Niall

[jeffwarne]

It is an interesting exercise.


Most golfers would actually score bettter, especially newer players.
I usually only allow them to buy 6-7 clubs, despite their insistence on a full set.


Lofted Driver(for women as much as 14 degrees-men 11-13), 7 wood 7 iron, 9 iron, SW, putter and one other are plenty.
Saves a lot of time also as there are less questions about what club to use where and endless caddy/pro discussion.


As they improve you add a few to fill in gaps-meanwhile , it's a lot easier to get proficient with 2-4 clubs rather than trying to learn 12-13 different lie angles, lengths and lofts


Usually I'm undermined by a spouse or parent who buys them a set of 16 clubs for a birthday surprise.


It's also a very liberating way to play as an advanced player-having to invent and create shots-especially on a course that allows it.
It gives one an appreciation for what a low clubhead speed player faces when tring to hit a 2/3 7 iron to a front pin when not enough spin can be creaetd to stop it.
Of course a better player can hit a high open face cut to stop it by using more speed, but a lower clubhead speed player doesn't have that option and the ball will run over.


Not really a solution for the elite as they really only need driver a hybrid and a sw wedge anyway.

[Peter Pallotta]

Erik - man, that's some impressive golf! It must be very satisfying to play the game so well. I keep hoping that such proficiency lies out there in the future for me, but with each passing year my doubts grow...

Jim - OMG, I never even considered that possibility, but I think you might be spot on.

Ira - thanks for the laugh. I was there too once, and if you don't mind some unsolicited advice: I think our worry is that we might sometimes be caught 'between clubs'; you know, the shot requires a 6 iron, but we only have a 5 iron and a 7 iron in our bag. But by a little trial and error, I found the solution -- i.e. take the 5 iron, every time!

'Take more club' is a good general principle; but also, in my case at least, the truth is that the shot actually "required" a 5 iron all along!

[Thomas Dai]

It's amazing how strategic you become when you won't necessarily have the club in the bag to get you out of trouble.
Niall

Nicely put Niall. Plus not having a club with you that's likely to put you in (as much) trouble in the first place.
atb