[Garland Bayley]

  So if I take a bull dozer and change some contours and build a cut-off ditch and route drainage to a pond, do I have to redraw the topo map for the secondary reviewers to understand the cut & fill?
...

If I run the contest, yes you do.
I want to know you are planning to spend the money.

So then why not just start your own contest and stop belittling someone else’s work. By the way, I’m not participating in your contest. I’m busy that day.

I'm sorry I'm not a patient enough and talented enough to write in a fashion that makes it clear that I am only trying to make suggestions for what I think would improve the contest.

The fact that you find what I write an attempt at belittling seems to me to reflect more on you than on me.

[Adrian_Stiff]

  So if I take a bull dozer and change some contours and build a cut-off ditch and route drainage to a pond, do I have to redraw the topo map for the secondary reviewers to understand the cut & fill?
...

If I run the contest, yes you do.
I want to know you are planning to spend the money.

So then why not just start your own contest and stop belittling someone else’s work. By the way, I’m not participating in your contest. I’m busy that day.

I'm sorry I'm not a patient enough and talented enough to write in a fashion that makes it clear that I am only trying to make suggestions for what I think would improve the contest.

The fact that you find what I write an attempt at belittling seems to me to reflect more on you than on me.

Garland - Just read the letter and YOU decide what is best for the piece of land. Fancy colours won't make any difference to my judging. 90% will be the centre lines.

[Garland Bayley]

Ben has an armchair archy
 contest here. Don't let an old curmudgeon hold you back. Get on the stick, and get to work.

[Charlie Goerges]

Hey there... wow, it's been years! (been on a quasi-enforced hiatus from golf in general )
Anyway, I just want to say I'm so happy that this tradition has continued! Already up to #6! Some names I remember, and some that are new, but I think Ben's design brief looks like it will be fun, and as always, a learning experience.
A little bit of shop-talk. I don't think anyone will be able to use sketchup for this kind of thing any more without jumping through exponentially more hoops than even several years ago because I believe they took the ability to import .dxf files away from the free version.
Anyway, I understand your frustration Garland. Though remember that I brought sketchup in, not for the benefit of the judges (or for presentation purposes), but for us. Because it would allow us to take a "picture” from a perspective that approximated being on the ground, so if we weren't very proficient reading a topo, we could do it the same way they used to; by touring the property. Nevertheless, it was too complicated, so not everyone had time to get up to speed and that’s why it wasn’t a requirement the second time (though it was an option). But, the really glossy and pretty-looking presentation stuff didn’t come from sketchup anyway, it just wasn’t capable of that at the time.
I’m glad to hear that Adrian is consciously working to not let the prettiness of the presentation sway him. That was really always what I expected too, but the judges are human (despite all the evidence to the contrary!)
Everyone did a great job on those old ones and I always found a great example from each person. In fact, Garland (this just popped into my head), your hole in the first contest that made use of the natural esker on the Erin Hills property was just great. You approached it off the drive at a slight diagonal so that the player had three real, actually distinct options off the tee. You could go left or right (one was the easier shot but left a more difficult approach to the blind punch-bowl green) or you could go straight over the long way and if you carried it, you’d get a turbo-boost that could run your ball all the way to the green. (Everyone had at least one great hole, but that one must have really stuck in my mind). I was pissed when I heard that they levelled that esker in real life. Dafuq!
Anyway, I’m setting an alarm to remind me to look at the submissions on/after March 17th, in case I forget.
Thanks Ben, and great job. Hopefully the process doesn’t drive you off the deep end!

[Bob Montle]

I have a question regarding the access roads.

"Access shall be preserved."  No problem.
But about those paved roads criss-crossing through the area.

May some be torn up and turned into grassland?  Most of them?  All of them?

[Ben Hollerbach]

I have a question regarding the access roads.

"Access shall be preserved."  No problem.
But about those paved roads criss-crossing through the area.

May some be torn up and turned into grassland?  Most of them?  All of them?

For the scope of the contest, the paved roads that currently exist on the interior of property can be removed, rerouted, or ignored. By preserving the already established entrances to the property from the current ANGC property, Berckmans Rd, and Washington Rd, the expectation is the Grounds Planning Committee will take into consideration the routing of the golf course when deciding how vehicles will traverse across the property effectively. If you would like to include recommendations to that effect they would be appreciated, but not required.

[Ben Hollerbach]

  So if I take a bull dozer and change some contours and build a cut-off ditch and route drainage to a pond, do I have to redraw the topo map for the secondary reviewers to understand the cut & fill?


just kidding...


Thank you Ben for managing this latest AAC.

While it may be in jest, It's probably worth discussing anyway...


If your design intent required notable change in topography of a specific area of the property it would be recommended to reflect that in the submitted design.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Thank you everyone in the interest in this AAC, While everyone begins to wrap their heads around the challenges of this particular site I'd be happy to field any more questions y'all may have concerning the logistics of the project or the provided site plans.


Also, could I get a rough head count of those planning on submitting a design?

[Josh Bills]

I plan to attempt.  Thanks. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

I have a question regarding the access roads.

"Access shall be preserved."  No problem.
But about those paved roads criss-crossing through the area.

May some be torn up and turned into grassland?  Most of them?  All of them?

From my point reading the brief. Primarily it is the car park for the masters, so unless I am briefed differently bulldozing over the paved car parks or roads would pretty much be DSQ as that would be clearly stupid. The intent as I read it is to design the course around the land disturbing as little as possible that is used as a car park.

[Bob Montle]

I plan to attempt.  Thanks. 

[Bob Brightly]

Ben, interesting site and concept. Count 1 more in, thanks.

[Steve Lang]

   Ben,


Count me in. 


steve

[Bob Montle]

I’m confused, and don’t want to be disqualified!

Ben:   “For the scope of the contest, the paved roads that currently exist on the interior of property can be removed, rerouted, or ignored.”

Adrian: “bulldozing over the paved car parks or roads would pretty much be DSQ as that would be clearly stupid. The intent as I read it is to design the course around the land disturbing as little as possible that is used as a car park.”

I must not be understanding the directions and plead old age!

[Ben Hollerbach]

I’m confused, and don’t want to be disqualified!

Ben:   “For the scope of the contest, the paved roads that currently exist on the interior of property can be removed, rerouted, or ignored.”

Adrian: “bulldozing over the paved car parks or roads would pretty much be DSQ as that would be clearly stupid. The intent as I read it is to design the course around the land disturbing as little as possible that is used as a car park.”

I must not be understanding the directions and plead old age!

Bob,

I'd advise you to refer back to the original design brief:

   • Preservation of ingress/egress points from Berckmans Rd. onto course property.  Routing of roads through            [/size]     property for Masters tournament should be considered, but is considered flexible, ingress/egress is fixed.


The roads through the middle of the property have been changed a few times over since Augusta National acquired the property and sometime in the future will be changed again. Focus on designing the best possible course you can, but understand that roadways will also need to occupy the property under final usage.[/color]

[Ed Oden]

"With all due respect to Charlie's pat on the back to all participants, comparing my entry to yours is like comparing those old vibrating electric football sets to Madden 2011." Ed Oden

That statement was made back when I had a sense of humor that clearly no longer exists.  While The Recession Club ( http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44273.0.html ) lasted far longer than predicted, failure was inevitable - some claim it was the defining concept of our offering docs.  The club was purchased out of bankruptcy a couple years ago by Russian "investors" that shorted CDOs before the crash, bulldozed the course and established a Bitcoin exchange.  Bastards.  I may not have TRC anymore, but no one can take away the memories of a special place that carried me though some tough years...or the lightly worn logo shirts (size S and XXXL) currently for sale on eBay.


Best of luck to all of this year's contestants!  If all else fails, remember that bribery is an option.


Ed

[Ben Hollerbach]

I hope everyone has had fun exploring the property and getting a good grasp of whats possible. If you haven't been able to spend much time, don't worry you still have 5 weeks to perfect your design.


When you are getting close to wrapping up your design let me know and I'll send you the submission link.


Happy Designing!

[Drew Groeger]

Ben,

I think I'll have time to give this a go. A couple of goofy questions for you:

1. On the west side of the plan there appears to be a tunnel/underpass under Berckmans Road. Should this be kept? It doesn't appear in Google Maps, fwiw.
2. Should the plans for a new 5th tee at ANGC and re-routing of Old Berckmans Road, which pushes itself onto this plot, be taken into consideration?
3. What kind of trees are shown on the site? Just curious.

Thanks for hosting this!

[Bob Montle]

For what it's worth, Bing maps has street views from Old Berckmans Road.
In case anyone wants to see a bit of the landscape close-up.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Ben,

I think I'll have time to give this a go. A couple of goofy questions for you:

1. On the west side of the plan there appears to be a tunnel/underpass under Berckmans Road. Should this be kept? It doesn't appear in Google Maps, fwiw.
2. Should the plans for a new 5th tee at ANGC and re-routing of Old Berckmans Road, which pushes itself onto this plot, be taken into consideration?
3. What kind of trees are shown on the site? Just curious.

Thanks for hosting this!

Drew,


The two tunnels under Berckmans Rd. should be kept under the same consideration as the automobile entrances onto the property.


While the re-routing of Berkmans Rd. all but directly signaled the lengthening of the 5th tee, for the sake of this contest you do not need to take that under consideration. I do not want submissions that have already been received to be punished by the timing of this announcement.


Primarily the property was covered in pines, most likely Longleaf or Loblolly.


Hope that helps.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Just 3 weeks left to finish your designs.

For those of you who have already verbalized your participation I'll send you the submission link this weekend. Anyone else who's working on a design, let me know and I'll send you the link as well.

[Ben Hollerbach]

I hope everyone is polishing up their entries, the deadline is just under a week away. Remember all submissions are due next Friday, before midnight.


If you don't have the submission link and need it, please let me know and I'll send it to you.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Three days to go before all submissions are due.


Make sure to submit your design by this Friday at 11:59PM.


If you're working on a design and still need the submission link please let me know.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The deadline for submissions is today!

For anyone still working you have until 23:59 EDT to submit your design. But make sure you reach out to me first to get the submission link.

Can't wait to see what everyone has come up with.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Thank you to all of those that participated in this years Armchair Architect's Contest. I hope everyone had fun working with this unique challenge. The Judges have begun to deliberate on the designs, but in the meantime I wanted to post this overlay of all of the submitted routings. I think it does a fantastic job of showcasing how many unique solutions people came up with for this problem.

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