How I Would Alter Alwoodley by Dr MacKenzie

[Jon Wiggett]

Mike,


I do not think it was better back then just different. On the one hand the condition of the course and general customer service is better. The clubhouse now is in much better condition and the car park is well paved ( ). It gives the visitor a very good experience.


When I first played it in 1982 the club did not have a professional and the trolley shed was an old railway wagon next to the first tee. I had to book and book a time in advance but when I played there were only 4 other players on the course that day. The car park was an uneven shale lot amongst the trees and the clubhouse looked as though it might have been abandoned several decades ago. The greens were in good nick but the rest of the course looked unmown though I never had a poor lie all day. Some of the bunkers were raked but most not and many were forgotten hollows out in the semi and scrub.


The lasting memory I have that is still sharp so many years later is being stood on the last tee looking down the fairway at the green. The sky was overcast with one patch of sunlight shining through illuminating the clubhouse with its sagging roof and rose covered veranda making it look like a ghost from a different era whose spirit was shining through into my present day. I must have stood there for 5 minutes looking at this scene knowing it would be something that would stay with me for the rest of my life.


Alwoodley certainly is in better shape these days but it has lost some of it's soul. So not better or worse just different.


ps. The other four players I saw that day were the proverbial two vicar with a dog and Mark James playing with (Anders Forsbrand?).

[Tom_Doak]

Jon:


My first visit there was also in 1982, in September or early October.


The amazing thing to me was that the club secretary then did not even acknowledge my interest in Dr. MacKenzie's work or the fact that it was his first course!


The club professional, Ian Duncan [the son of George Duncan], later explained that MacKenzie's divorce was such a divisive thing  amongst the membership that no one around the club would talk about him after that, and after that many years of denial, they had kind of lost touch with his role in the place.

[Tom_Doak]

Not to mention the fact that Alwoodley have replaced all MacKenzie's original greens with USGA versions...

... meanwhile Reddish Vale and Cavendish have changed very little since Dr Mac's day -  largely because both clubs have been completely skint for the last 100 years!

Indeed this is also the reason for Crystal Downs surviving into the 1980's without much tinkering or decay.


Sometimes I wish other clubs did not have the money to do their big projects.

[Niall C]

When I first played it in 1982 the club did not have a professional and the trolley shed was an old railway wagon next to the first tee. I had to book and book a time in advance but when I played there were only 4 other players on the course that day. The car park was an uneven shale lot amongst the trees and the clubhouse looked as though it might have been abandoned several decades ago. The greens were in good nick but the rest of the course looked unmown though I never had a poor lie all day. Some of the bunkers were raked but most not and many were forgotten hollows out in the semi and scrub.

Jon

That sounds absolutely idyllic.

Niall

[MCirba]

Jon,


Bravo.

[Jon Wiggett]

Just one other small side note. At the time I was a 13 year old playing off probably a 6 handicap looking to play other courses to my beloved Dewsbury to get a different experience. I got a 'Daily Rover' ticket which allowed unlimited travel for one day on all West Yorkshire buses for the cost of £1.50. The round at Alwoodley was done through the 'Yorkshire Junior Society' scheme which allowed reduced rates on courses for under 18's which cost me £2. After the round at Alwoodley walked the 200 yards across the road to Moortown where I paid £1.50 to play. So for £5 I got to play two of the UK's finest inland courses including the travel. The Captain at Moortown even invited me in to look at the photos and honours boards in the Men's Lounge which was normally off limits to juniors.


I wonder what it would cost today?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Just one other small side note. At the time I was a 13 year old playing off probably a 6 handicap looking to play other courses to my beloved Dewsbury to get a different experience. I got a 'Daily Rover' ticket which allowed unlimited travel for one day on all West Yorkshire buses for the cost of £1.50. The round at Alwoodley was done through the 'Yorkshire Junior Society' scheme which allowed reduced rates on courses for under 18's which cost me £2. After the round at Alwoodley walked the 200 yards across the road to Moortown where I paid £1.50 to play. So for £5 I got to play two of the UK's finest inland courses including the travel. The Captain at Moortown even invited me in to look at the photos and honours boards in the Men's Lounge which was normally off limits to juniors.


I wonder what it would cost today?

Jon,


I know that golf courses appear to have inflated beyond reason but after reading an article in the Irish Times yesterday, it coincidentally got me thinking about this.


It was about average house prices in Dublin in 1973 vs now. They have multiplied by 100 times. It was comparing this to luxury cars which have multiplied by 10-12 times and I reckon it would be safe to say all goods have multiplied by that amount in the timeframe.


Not sure golf courses are too different, maybe a bit more. I’d like to see some other comparisons. I first played Carnoustie in 1987 at £13 and TOC the following year at £18. I’d played a lot of decent courses at that point but none of the others had cost more than £8.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ally,


the alteration in price was not really the point of my post but in answer to your point. It might be so that some properties in Dublin are 100 times more expensive than in 1973 but then again there are thousands of properties in the ROI that they literally cannot giveaway so it all depends on which facts are cherry picked. Some clubs have increased their rates out of the reach of most normal players so golf must be booming. Or is it not some clubs have lower greenfees now than 30 years ago so surely golf is on its knees?


Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

Not to go down a worm hole off topic but I don’t think you are right about houses in the ROI.


Guess I was just pressure-testing whether golf has inflated outside norms for other walks of life.

[Niall C]

Jon/Ally,

I think the examples you give just highlight the increasing stratification in all walks of life, be it the housing market or the cost of greenfees. As an aside, I was discussing with the guys yesterday that when I joined Silloth in the early 2000's the subs were £250. They had just gone up from the previous year when they were £205. The increase nearly caused a riot with sections of the membership. Compare that £250 to yesterdays greenfee of £42 for winter golf, and we were all feeling really pleased that we'd got a bargain.

Niall