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Pete_Pittock

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I've had the paper copy for a few days and this link showed up for hours ago


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/worlds-100-greatest-golf-courses


The top ten:
1 Royal County Down   (1/1)**
2 Royal Dornoch (Championship) (5/2)
3. Royal Melbourne (West) (6/3)
4. Muirfield (9/5)
5. St.Andrews Links (Old) (8/4)
6. Tara Iti (new)
7. Royal Portrush (Dunluce) (27/16)
8. Shanqin Bay (37/21)
9. Cabot Cliffs (19/8)
10. Trump Turnberry (Ailsa) (22/11)


**explaining numbers in parentheses:  The number before the  "/" is the courses position in the previous list. Since that list also included US courses, the number after the "/" is it's relative position in that list, with US courses deleted. Task completed, all courses without (x/x)  after the name are new to the list.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 12:53:27 AM by Pete_Pittock »

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 01:51:03 PM »



11   Barnbougle Dunes (33/19)
12.  Sunningdale (Old)  (23/12)                     
13.  Kingston Heath  (18/7)               
14.  Golf de Morfontaine  (20/9)       
15.  Royal Birkdale (35/20)
16.  Ballybunion (Old)
17.  Cape Kidnappers (16/6)
18.  New South Wales (30/18)
19.  Royal Melbourne (East)  (55/32)
20.  St George's G&CC (41/23)
21.  Carnoustie (26/15)
22.  Royal St. Georges (45/25)
23. The Club of Nine Bridges (79/44)
24.  Cape Wickham Links (24/13)
25.  North Berwick (50/29)
 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:17:55 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 01:53:56 PM »
26. Barnougle Lost Farm    (40/22)       
27. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog) (56/33)
28. Jack Nicklaus G C Korea
29. Haesley Nine Bridges
30. Kingsbarns Golf Links (69/38)
31. Ellerston  (29/17)
32. St. George's Hill
33. Sunningdale (new)' (92/49)
34. Lahinch (Old) (65/37)
35. The Bluffs Ho Tram Strip (74/41)
36. National GC of Canada (66/37)
37. Kauri Cliffs (49/28)
38. Fancourt (Links) (43/24)
39. Swinley Forest (61/35)
40 Royal Troon (Old)
41. Royal Porthcawl (47/27)
42. Valderrama (71/40)
43. Cabot Links (93/50)
44. Yas Links (46/26)
45. Victoria (Australia)
46. Royal Lytham & St. Annes (82/45)
47. Diamante (Dunes) (52/30)
48. Mission Hills Kaikou (Blackstone)
49. South Cape Owners Club
50. Hirono (21/10)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 12:40:26 AM by Pete_Pittock »

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 02:04:40 PM »


51.  Capilano                                                             76.  Jack's Point
52.  Emirates GC  (95/51)                                         77.  Paraparaumu Beach
53.  Castle Stuart                                                       78.  TPC Kuala Lampur (West)
54.  Mid Ocean Club                                                 79.  Sentosa (Serapong) (58/34)
55.  Waterville G Links                                              80.  Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
56.  Cruden Bay                                                         81. Anyang
57.  Metropolitan                                                       82.  Jumeirah G Estates (Earth) (97/53)
58.  Portmarnock (Championship)  (24/14)           83.  Old Head G Links
59.  Black Mountain (East/North)                            84.  Naruo (96/52)
60.  Hamilton G&CC (West/South                           85.  Royal Adelaide
61.  Machrihanish (91/48)                                        86.  St. Andrews Beach
62.  Sheshan International  (86/46)                        87.  Highland Links
63.  Punta Estada (76/43)                                         88.  Spring City Golf and Lake Resort (Lake)  (75/42)
64.  Trump International Golf Links  (54/31)         89.  Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge
65.  Leopard Creek  (88/47)                                     90.  Kasumigaseki (East)
66.  Walton Heath (Old)                                            91.  Four Seasona Punta Mita (Pacifico)
67.  Rye (Old)                                                              92.  The European Club
68.  Ganton                                                                 93.  Quivira
69.  Olgiata (West) 100/55)                                       94.  BRG Da Nang
70.  Cabo del Sol (Ocean)   (70/39)                          95.  Prestwick
71.  Royal Aberdeen (Balgownie)                             96.  Durban
72.  Royal Liverpool                                                   97.  Querencia ((98/54)
73.  Siam (Old)                                                            98.  The National (Moonah)
74.  Loch Lomond                                                      99.  Banff Springs
75.  Kawana Hotel GC (Fuji)   (64/36)                     100. Western Gailes
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 12:51:47 AM by Pete_Pittock »

Michael Wolf

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 02:20:27 PM »
No Falkenstein and nothing from the Netherlands. LoL.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 02:25:56 PM »

reserved by courses by country. P.S. There will be an imaginary Magatrumpistan with two courses, but the actual countries will also get credited.


I will add old positions on the list (in parentheses) or (new). It has been pointed out that the old list had US courses. My numbers in parentheses will not include US courses, thus will be less than 100, and I will make sure to spell out the difference in the reply.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 03:42:28 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Garland Bayley

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 02:56:40 PM »

reserved by courses by country


I will add old positions on the list (in parentheses) or (new)

If I were you, I wouldn't add the old positions. They are almost totally meaningless, since only 4 by my count fell in the rankings, which means that 96 advanced higher in the rankings, or were new to the rankings. That has to mean that the old rankings were totally meaningless. The most noticable thing to learn was that Trump International near Aberdeen fell 10 spots in the rankings.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

James Reader

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:08:15 PM »
The ‘previous ranking’ figure is based on the full world list, ie including US course, hence most are ranked higher in the list.

David Jones

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 03:15:43 PM »
A cynic may say they have produced this ‘World excluding USA’ list so that 40-50 more courses across the globe can say they are in the Golf Digest World Top 100. And maybe even take out adverts in the odd golf publication to that effect.


Only they aren’t. They are now in the Golf Digest World (excluding USA) Top 100. Bet that’s not on the logo though...

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 03:30:28 PM »
I am capable of subtraction, and will add an asterkiss. For example Ellerston was 29th on the old list, 31st on the new list, with 11 intervening US courses on the old list.  I would put it at (*20), meaning it dropped 11 spots.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 10:47:00 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 03:50:25 PM »
Any surprises on the rankings yet?  Surprised the fur hasn't started flying....


Jake Marvin

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 04:39:12 PM »
Any surprises on the rankings yet?  Surprised the fur hasn't started flying....


Not a surprise, necessarily, but Quivira as it stands is not a Top 100 course, probably not even top 200. Disregarding certain faults like its inability to be walked and the turf (don't expect any roll), the biggest issue is that the goal seems to be views with a side of golf. The holes you'll see in promotional material (esp. 5 and 6) are full of eye candy, but are among the worst golf holes I've seen on such a highly-rated course. The entire fifth fairway slopes towards the ocean and there's hardly a landing zone. For those who find it (my group was one for four, and the one was a lucky deflection off the rocks right), the approach is completely blind and straight downhill to a small cliffside green (we also lost three of four approach shots). It's the only drivable par four I've seen where you'll likely lose more balls by laying up than going for the green. Six is better, but a 13 yard wide green is insufficient (period, but especially) when left and right are death and most players have a mid-iron into a stiff wind. And those are only the photo-friendly holes. On several others (7, 11, 14, 16 are some), I stood on the tee wondering why, if Nicklaus is willing to move so much dirt, he wouldn't move [insert landform here]. Admittedly, it's a very tough site, but there had to have been better solutions, especially when green-to-tee walks are no constraint.


Moreover, it suffers from a lack of finish that probably isn't permanent, but that should keep the course out of rankings until it is established. A lot of this is probably due to a big storm about a month ago that sent a good deal of water through the arroyos and elsewhere, but they were employing hay bales and netting to protect certain landforms and to keep the turf from being swallowed by sand. That said, CDS Ocean didn't seem to have such problems, so hopefully with time they'll figure that maintenance out. Also, it's rumored that if/when Nicklaus comes back to build another 18 (it's still in the "people associated with the club excitedly talking about it" phase of development), he'll soften 5 and 6, and hopefully fix 11 and 14 at the least. I think it easily could be a Top 100 course, but I'm also not sure the club has the mentality to make it such. We'll see. It's no Diamante and no CDS Ocean, at least not yet.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 04:40:50 PM by Jake Marvin »

Mark_F

Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 05:55:42 PM »
Any surprises on the rankings yet?  Surprised the fur hasn't started flying....


RM West is much better than Dornoch.
NSW is in no possible way better than North Berwick.
Carnoustie is much better than RM East.
Barnbougle Lost Farm isn't as good as Lahinch, never mind Ganton or Royal Aberdeen.
St Andrews Beach is wayyyy better than Metropolitan, but at least it was several places better than National Moonah. I guess any recent gain in the National's share price following Tom Doak's appointment to rebuild the Ocean course will be reversed with the realisation that three courses on land that good only yields a single course that barely squeaks into World Top 100.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 07:02:02 PM »
There I go, not reading to the end again.   :-[
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 07:38:28 PM »
Any surprises on the rankings yet?  Surprised the fur hasn't started flying....


I was sure surprised!  All in a good way.  Was especially happy to see St. Andrews Beach get some recognition, even if this really is more like the foreign half of the World Top 200, as has been pointed out.


Still nothing on how they come up with their rankings.  But if Tara Iti had been ranked even one spot higher I would have had to retire :)

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 08:46:23 PM »

Have not played the course but am surprised that The Kinloch, Taupo NZ isn't included.  Will play 4 or 5 in the next month.
Olympic gold for Club at Nine Bridges
Deep drop for Portmarnock.
Big jump up for Shanqin Bay.
Lahinch ++
Up escalator for Royal Melbourne (east)
Cape Kidnappers has been adjusted downward.
The new holes at Royal Portrush (Dunluce) are very well received.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 12:54:25 AM by Pete_Pittock »

Steve Lapper

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 05:55:00 AM »
Focusing on the placement within this list is the wrong exercise.

Of all the ratings/rankings, this is the one list that has absolutely zero credibility (sorry Tom :P ).

It is a list arbitrarily and artificially composed by the editors of GD, culled solely from a combination of their affiliated overseas marketing and distribution business partners and the personal preferences of Ron Whitten, Jerry Tarde, and pals etc...

There is very good reason you will likely NEVER see this list describe any mathematical or quantitative system behind it's numbers.....it doesn't exist. They talk of "International Panelists," essentially a buzzword for a good number of folks whose job it is to feed at the trough of freebies and promotion. None of the ratings panels are 100% pure, but this one doesn't live far from the nearest sewer treatment plant.

I'm not saying many of the courses don't deserve some merit or even their exalted or not places on the list......but the sheer number of ridiculous names  on the list and the placement of many others is pure folly.

Perhaps GD is now ready to mate their past list of golf-specific strains of marijuana with their ratings list.....it would likely make more sense.



PS..Did Darius Oliver license "Planet Golf" to them for this??? I've no idea, but rather doubt it. I don't know if he has, but if not, I'd love to see him go at them for it.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 06:00:24 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Sean_A

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 06:06:11 AM »
There is one surprise for me and that is Machrihanish.  I like the course and think it is good, maybe very good, but top 75 good?  To me there is an overflowing handful of GB&I courses which are better candidates.

Ciao
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Niall C

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 06:51:12 AM »
Maybe one of the reasons why this list hasn’t got more folk gnashing at the teeth is because they recognise how subjective and arbitrary it is. Or perhaps they recognise how bonkers it is. I can only comment on the relative standing of the UK courses but from what I can see Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles must have been on the selection panel.
 
One thing is clear, if at the start of the last century golf design moved from the “Penal” school of architecture to the “Strategic” school, it has now moved again into the “Oh, what a lovely view” school of design. ‘Tis a shame.
 
Niall

David Davis

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 07:45:10 AM »
I won't comment on the list itself, there a lot of great courses on the list though I'd side with Steve.


I guess the reason The Netherlands didn't make the list is because they don't have a local Golf Digest magazine or staff here and perhaps they simply just combine there local office lists and give them equal balance. I would like to see their criteria and methodology as that would shed more light on this.


I did go all the way to Kunming China to see Stone Forest before they closed it down and while I was there I made a side trip to visit Spring City. Not many people have been there and while it's a beautiful area and a nice resort the two courses by Nicklaus and RTJ Jr the Lake course by RTJ Jr in no way could be a Top 100 parkland course in the US and if it were located in The Netherlands it wouldn't be in the Top 10. Though that's just my opinion. Anyone else played it?
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Ryan Farrow

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 09:58:36 AM »
David, I played the Nicklaus and walked/rode the lake course by RTJ JR. I thought the Nicklaus was better, the Lake course was almost unplayable as it is built into a cliffside. They are still riding a 20+ year old buzz of best conditioned courses in Asia, neither would crack my top 10 in China. Shanqin Bay at #8 is also surprising, I never thought to myself that this would be argued as one of the best best courses in the world, best in China, maybe the best in Asia.

Way, way, way too much emphasis on new courses but as others have mentioned $$$ speaks and I don't see too many of these old clubs paying for an AD in Golf Digest.

Maybe the political climate in our country has dulled our senses a bit, hard to get too shocked and outraged over a golf ranking. I'm moving on.

Rich Goodale

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 11:07:01 AM »
Gag me with a spoon... ???
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

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James Reader

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Re: Golf Digest / Planet Golf Top 100 World (Non-US) Golf Courses
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 04:12:29 PM »
Just read this. Anyone know who the architects are who consider St Andrews’ enormous greens “to be a waste of turf”?!