Let's move some trees - Bethpage Black #1 - January 3, 2018

[Mike Sweeney]

January 3, 2018 from Andrew Wilson, Bethpage State Park - Director of Agronomy.

"Tree transplanting today. Moved 5 Elms from the left side of 1 Black to the right (inside corner) of 1.  Tougher to take more off the dogleg now."



See the full tweet from Andrew Wilson here:

https://twitter.com/Greensideup17/status/948623084084514818

Genuinely interested in people's opinion.

And if you need any more information that the staff at Bethpage cares, this was 1/3/18. Not the insane cold that we had this weekend, but still, it was cold.

Thanks for caring Andrew, but here he go with "frank commentary".

Thoughts? Here is a pic from 2017, I think:

[Mark Fedeli]

This is confusing. I play it every weekend and when the tees are on the far right side, some players will definitely hit out right to Green #1 fairway to cut the corner and turn it into a short par 4. However, the line for that is short/right of that first stand of green trees on the right, not beyond them. I never see anyone take the line where the new trees are... ooohhhhhhh, this is only for the pros, who try to bomb it over everything to the front of the green. Nevermind. I thought Bethpage might do something that makes the course more fun for the locals. How foolish of me.



That said, I never liked the trees on the left side, on the outside of the dogleg, and was disappointed when they replanted them after the storm. Glad to see them moved. For that alone, I approve.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I never understood why the trees were planted or left to begin with. Broke up a great view. Much better, now.

[MCirba]

Hmmm...why?  Left or right?

[mike_malone]

It shows disrespect for the strategy at the green .  It is designed to make a shot from the right difficult.  I’m no fan of fescue but would prefer that they punish where you land and not where you fly it.

[Mike Sweeney]

I never understood why the trees were planted or left to begin with. Broke up a great view. Much better, now.

Agreed.


I guess my updated question is, why re-plant on the right side?

[MCirba]

Why indeed!

[Michael George]

Not a fan of trees used on the inside of a dogleg due to the lack of options.


However, in this case, trees up the entire right side (including up by the tee) may be needed.  Otherwise, why wouldn't a player hit into the fairway on the right of the hole.  It is a more direct route and leaves a much shorter 2nd shot.

[Kalen Braley]

Perhaps the thinking is....


If you plant them just left of the bottom green side bunker in Mikes aerial, it will discourage the every day joes from hitting to the other fairway because now the approach shot will have to go over trees to get to the green


P.S.  Or just make the other fairway OB when hitting from 1 Tee at Black

[Joe Hancock]

Is this a case where trees are being utilized to fix a routing flaw? Genuine question...I’ve never played there.

[Kalen Braley]

Is this a case where trees are being utilized to fix a routing flaw? Genuine question...I’ve never played there.

Thats what I was thinking.  Make players think twice about going up Green #1 if they know they have to carry some trees to get to Black 1 green.


But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

[corey miller]

If it were someone else's property and there was a chain link fence it certainly would not be a routing flaw. 


Talk about wasting money....but just happy the head agronomist is also an architect.  Under whose advisement? Under whose advisement are the fairways so narrow? Under whose advisement is the rough so penal?

Do any of the "rating" services take into account how unplayable the place is?

Final gripe........Why do non tournament players at the beginning of a six hour round (with players sometimes coming up the other corridor) feel the need to hit down another fairway on another course?

Lots  of "bad" things have been done on classic courses to prevent such things. 

Death of the dogleg........

[Joe Bausch]

But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

Pretty certain the green course was there first.  I think it was called Lenox Hills CC.  Paging Kyle H!

[Howard Riefs]

But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

Pretty certain the green course was there first.  I think it was called Lenox Hills CC.  Paging Kyle H!

Via Bethpage's website:

The Green Course is the first of the five courses at Bethpage. Originally called the Lenox Hills Course, it was redesigned when the Black, Red and Blue Courses were built.

https://parks.ny.gov/golf-courses/11/details.aspx

[Phil Carlucci]

But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

Pretty certain the green course was there first.  I think it was called Lenox Hills CC.  Paging Kyle H!

Green Course, then known as Lenox Hills, was there first.  However, not sure if Green #1 as currently laid out was part of the original routing.  I believe today's #1 and #18 came later.  I could be wrong.

I've only taken a handful of swings from the tee on Black #1, so plenty of others on here would have better input than me, but in my opinion driving down the fairway of Green #1 isn't as attractive an option as the aerial makes it seem.  You still have to hit a fairway, and your angle in from there is pretty terrible.  I've stood over that shot, albeit out of driver incompetence, and it's not that enticing.  Throw in the fact that, if you're there intentionally, you're earning the scorn of those playing on Green #1 and the snickering of those trailing groups watching you tee off.

[JJShanley]

But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

Pretty certain the green course was there first.  I think it was called Lenox Hills CC.  Paging Kyle H!

Bethpage Green was the first course I played in the U.S., in 2003, and I recall the starter and several other folks telling me that.

[Mark Fedeli]

This has to be purely for the pros because they do aim to the fairway just left of the green, trying to cut the corner completely and leave themselves a short pitch in. Some of them even do it with a 3 wood. Now they'll have some more height to clear first.


The biggest way I see it effecting the average player is:
- If you slice it into the shorter right trees, you now have that many fewer openings to punch out through, or over, if you want to take a line toward the green.
- If you're a shorter hitter who must play it as a 3-shotter, cutting the corner with your second shot to get in position for a pitch to the green just got a lot harder.


My gripe would be that when they do things like this, I wish they'd also decide to widen the fairway on the left so players have the option for the safer tee shot, but leaving a much longer second. But the tourists pay to get their asses kicked, I guess.

[jeffwarne]

Is this a case where trees are being utilized to fix a routing flaw? Genuine question...I’ve never played there.

Thats what I was thinking.  Make players think twice about going up Green #1 if they know they have to carry some trees to get to Black 1 green.


But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

In the State Open they put OB stakes tight in the woods on the right side.
I'd be OK with the green fairway being OB but not the treeline!
Pretty sure the fairway is OB in US Opens

[Mark Fedeli]

Is this a case where trees are being utilized to fix a routing flaw? Genuine question...I’ve never played there.

Thats what I was thinking.  Make players think twice about going up Green #1 if they know they have to carry some trees to get to Black 1 green.


But then again, which course came first? Green or Black?  If it was Black, then I guess it wasn't really a routing flaw..

In the State Open they put OB stakes tight in the woods on the right side.
I'd be OK with the green fairway being OB but not the treeline!
Pretty sure the fairway is OB in US Opens

They do put OB stakes for all the pro events.


I actually don't think these new trees effect the amateur going up Green #1 fairway. If you make it to Green #1 fairway, you are already far enough right that you'll have a clear shot to the green. It's a terrible angle, sure, but you can cut off a lot of distance going that way. And anyway, it's tough to hit that green even from A+ position, so it's worth the risk for some.

[Kalen Braley]

Something like this, between the greens would look awesome!!

[Rick Lane]

I never understood why the trees were planted or left to begin with. Broke up a great view. Much better, now.

Even with the pros playing it OB on the green #1 fairway, some still try to get it past the trees in the rough short right of the green.   So why not make that area a nasty field of fescue surrounded bunkers like you see on either side of the 18th here?   

We have a similar hole (albeit uphill) where the trees on the inside of the dogleg take away options for the everyday player.  Kinda boring.   We are thinking about making the whole inside of the dogleg a series of fescue and bunkers for views, and to tempt the player (kind of like a cape hole, then), but the risk is an awful lie and awkward length sand shot for being greedy.   Wouldn't the same idea work here?