[Garland Bayley]

Only 3 x par-3's Garland?
Go on, add the 17th at Dunfanaghy! And what happened to the par-3 6th at Cruit, the par-3 14th at R'p/OTM the par-5 16th at Dunf' (the 6th and 8th are pretty good too) plus the wonderful looking par-4 12th at Greencastle that Jeff posted photos of.
atb

These are only from courses I have played.

[jeffwarne]

Par 3? Best? How about variety?
...
7 at Northwest 136 yards to tiny elevated knob shedding green-(had an ace there so somehat biased)

Perhaps you had the ace at 8. An ace at 7 would have had gale force tail wind at a minimum. 😉

8 is right-It's easy to get turned around there with the walk back to the tee(in the opposite direction you've been playing) for 8.
By the way the par 4 7th is a pretty good candidate for an all Northwest Iireland holes

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

No love for the 5th at Murvagh? I always liked it, but maybe I need to get back and play it again.


Agree with Ally and others about the 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th at Rosapenna OTM. I think the 12th (I can't stop thinking of it as the 4th) is one of the best on the course; I love that big center-line bunker.


Speaking of drivable or short par fours; the 13th on OTM used to be 255-yds. You played from what is probably the present ladies tee to the left of the 12th green. It was a truly brilliant drivable par four as you needed to get the drive landing down the left side of the green and let it roll with the contours to the right in order to get close. The greenside bunker and orientation of the green were just perfect for low trajectory drive. I recall seeing so many disasters on that hole, as it seemed so simple, yet was so tough. I think the current tee location has removed all the strategy and architect's (H.S. Colt) intent.

[jeffwarne]

No love for the 5th at Murvagh? I always liked it, but maybe I need to get back and play it again.


Agree with Ally and others about the 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th at Rosapenna OTM. I think the 12th (I can't stop thinking of it as the 4th) is one of the best on the course; I love that big center-line bunker.


Speaking of drivable or short par fours; the 13th on OTM used to be 255-yds. You played from what is probably the present ladies tee to the left of the 12th green. It was a truly brilliant drivable par four as you needed to get the drive landing down the left side of the green and let it roll with the contours to the right in order to get close. The greenside bunker and orientation of the green were just perfect for low trajectory drive. I recall seeing so many disasters on that hole, as it seemed so simple, yet was so tough. I think the current tee location has removed all the strategy and architect's (H.S. Colt) intent.

Hello Donal,
Great to see you posting.
How do you like all the new holes/routing at Gweedore?
Is it better? 15 looks cool.


I can't remember 5 at Murvagh...I remember liking the course more in '97 than I did in 2011-seemed much narrower.


I get confused about OTM as well.
I knew I remembered the old 13th being shorter and more temptng-they definitely sucked the strategy out of for a majority of players

[Garland Bayley]

No love for the 5th at Murvagh? I always liked it, but maybe I need to get back and play it again.

It was on my list when I did the pick two exercise, and when I did the eclectic best 18. Just didn't make the cut.
Agree with Ally and others about the 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th at Rosapenna OTM. I think the 12th (I can't stop thinking of it as the 4th) is one of the best on the course; I love that big center-line bunker.

9+4=13, not 12 😁

Speaking of drivable or short par fours; the 13th on OTM used to be 255-yds. You played from what is probably the present ladies tee to the left of the 12th green. It was a truly brilliant drivable par four as you needed to get the drive landing down the left side of the green and let it roll with the contours to the right in order to get close. The greenside bunker and orientation of the green were just perfect for low trajectory drive. I recall seeing so many disasters on that hole, as it seemed so simple, yet was so tough. I think the current tee location has removed all the strategy and architect's (H.S. Colt) intent.

DD and I played it into the wind. We had no chance to carry the dogleg.
According to the scorecard, we played it at 352 yards. .

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Hi Jeff,


I've just walked the new holes at Gweedore when they were in a very raw state in 2010, 2012 and 2013. I might get a chance to play them soon. They are a bit rough around the edges; it was all done inhouse (which can sometimes be good thing, e.g Cruit, original versions of Portsalon, Ballyliffin, Mulranny, etc.) so the finishing and shaping is a bit primitive. I think that sometimes knowing too much about architecture can be a bad thing, if in the hands of the wrong architect. The par three 15th is in a spectacular setting and the following hole is a nice shortish par four. I'm not so keen on the 14th, another shortish par four where they were forced to relocate a green due to some wild ferns growning on a hillside.


We did play some new holes, including this new par three 15th way back in 1989, but due to some land disputes, the new holes were abandonded. I had a hole-in-on on that 15th!! The club had to fight the environmental agencies in order to be allowed to re-develope the abandonded holes. Luckily I had saved some scorecards from 1989 (I'm a scorecard nerd) which helped prove that this land had been used for golf in the past.


I have to commend the club for settling on 15 holes, rather than trying to squeeze in 18 holes. The 18 hole layout we played in 1989 wasn't very good; it was short, a bit congested and felt awkward. The move to 15 holes is a good start, and if they can secure some remaining commonage rights, they could eventually get to 18 holes; but only if 18 are better than 15, otherwise, it's not worth it.


I've given up on Photobucket, so will see if I can upload some photos to some other hosting site. The GCA web-page hasn't made posting photos any easier in recent years.


Here's a picture of 5th at Murvagh to refresh your memory (taken from the club's web-page):
http://www.donegalgolfclub.ie/course/course_tour/hole_5

[Charles Lund]

5th at Murvagh is a very difficult uphill part three which is all carry.  There is much trouble left and right.  The green has severe slope from left to right, with left being the high side.


I think it is Murvagh's best part three, although the shortish 13th has given me a lot of grief.  They recently shortened the 16th, which was so long it often required a driver.


Charles Lund

[jeffwarne]

I think the 12th (I can't stop thinking of it as the 4th) is one of the best on the course; I love that big center-line bunker.

9+4=13, not 12 😁

Garland
9+4 can equal 12 at Rosapenna.
here's what Donal was referring to.


Dating back to when I played a virtually abandoned Rosapenna golf club in 1997 and paid my green fees in the pub in town.
There used to be a short to mid length par 4 that was number 1 above and to the right of what is now #10 tee (after that ghastly walkthrough the parking lot  by the horriffic clubhouse) It was pleasant enough get away hole.There are noe houses there that probably have a nice view of the beach.
2 tee was high up and played to what is now 10 green-an excellent straightaway nice par 4 with a sea view from the tee up near old 1 green. what is now 10 was 2,,11 was 3, 12 was 4 13 was 5, 14 6, 15 7, 16 8, 17 9, 18 was 10 and then the Coastguard 9 proceeded across the road and up to the high ground with 11-18.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Garland,


9+4=13, not 12
It's complicated! 


The old 1st hole on the side of the hill between the clubhouse and hotel was removed from the layout. They also ditched the 11th-18th across the road to the NW of the clubhouse. They added 9 new hole which is the current first nine of the OTM course. The current 10th "re-used" the fairway and green of the old 2nd hole, the old 3rd became the 11th and the old 4th became the 12th. 


If you want to see the old (1995, 2000, 2005 and "latest") aerial photos of Irish courses, go to the Ordnance Survey of Ireland GeoHive:
http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html


Click on "Geohive Map" on the top right and choose "Aerial Imagery". Expand the "+ Base Information and Mapping" on the top left in the Data Catalogue menu. Click on a year (e.g. Aerial 1995) and play with the Transparency settings below. It's a great resource, as many courses in Ireland didn't change much until the 1990s-2000s.



EDIT: Composed while Jeff was posting. Spot on summary Jeff.

[jeffwarne]

crossed pots Donal!


Amazing I can remember every hole on OTM in multiple versions, and struglle to remember any hole at the Sandy Links
 course having played it nearly as many times.

[Cliff Hamm]

Hate to interrupt this conversation but.....almost have my trip planned.  Ballyliffin - old or Port Salon where the fun factor is most important?

[jeffwarne]

Hate to interrupt this conversation but.....almost have my trip planned.  Ballyliffin - old or Port Salon where the fun factor is most important?

Ballyliffin is very welcoming.Charles Lund can elaborate on the courses.


That said, Portsalon will blow your socks off.


Where would you be coming from? i assume you have time for just one extra round-If so, I'd ay save Ballyliffin for when you can play 36


If fun is truly the factor, I'd add Cruit
or Northwest-very compact

[Sean_A]

Map of Rosapenna property.



Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Hate to interrupt this conversation but.....almost have my trip planned.  Ballyliffin - old or Port Salon where the fun factor is most important?

Ballyliffin is very welcoming.Charles Lund can elaborate on the courses.


That said, Portsalon will blow your socks off.


Where would you be coming from? i assume you have time for just one extra round-If so, I'd ay save Ballyliffin for when you can play 36


If fun is truly the factor, I'd add Cruit
or Northwest-very compact

Cliff,

Have you already decided your other two? Portrush Valley and North West?

Chuck and Jeff would seem best positioned to answer your present query.

[Garland Bayley]

Map of the Rosapenna property.


Ciao

Interesting to see the Coast Guard nine. I asked about playing it while I was there. They said a junior tourney had teed off an hour earlier so I should be OK. Blind drive on three, which I found must just missed catching up with them. I waited to finish the hole, and then hiked back to play a second 18 of the day on OTM course.

PS. How is it that photobucket is still working for you?

[Cliff Hamm]

 So here’s the plan. Son lives in Dublin and will be driving to Donnegal. Combination of touring and golf with wife. Planning on playing N and P.    Also Portrush Valley.   The way that the trip is working port salon, Northwest, or Ballyliffin will work.   Just a matter of which one?

[Garland Bayley]

Quoting James Finnegan
"On no account is this reborn links to be missed by anyone who comes to Donegal."

Now off to see what he says about Ballyliffen.

[Sean_A]

Garland

My photos seem to remain alive for some reason.  I expect they haven't caught up with me...yet.  When I look at the map it tells the story of why I prefer the oddly named Strand Nine to the Valley Nine...more rumpled and interesting land. 

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Finnegan does not wax poetically about Ballyliffen. Glashedy is just too hard for him, and the biggest positive of the old course is that it has never been touched by machine so there are almost no level lies/stances.

[jeffwarne]

Garland

My photos seem to remain alive for some reason.  I expect they haven't caught up with me...yet.  When I look at the map it tells the story of why I prefer the oddly named Strand Nine to the Valley Nine...more rumpled and interesting land. 

Ciao

Interesting-I always felt the valley nine was the best 9 holes on the property-a bit more subtle.
The Strand nine reminds me a bit of Ballyliffin-nice holes but not the maturity and variety of the Valley-and I guess I'm just not as big of  a fan of big dunes as I thought I was.
I wasn't crazy about the Coastguard 9 the first time I played it because of the condos on the one high hole but I think I preferred it to the Strand 9 which just didn't grab me.
I think a lot of it is just all the routing and design changes have kind've killed the cohesiveness and rytthym of the place-that and the big yellow building in the middle

[Charles Lund]

So here’s the plan. Son lives in Dublin and will be driving to Donnegal. Combination of touring and golf with wife. Planning on playing N and P.    Also Portrush Valley.   The way that the trip is working port salon, Northwest, or Ballyliffin will work.   Just a matter of which one?

The Causeway Coast tournament is in early June and they use Portrush Valley that week.  I think they also use Ballyliffin Old.


Ballyliffin will be getting ready for the Irish Open in July and the Glashedy course will close in early June.  That means that The Old Links will have a lot of pressure for play and the complex will be dealing with the complexities of setting up for the championship.


I plan to be out of there by June 6th and cut my time short.   I would ordinarily would recommend playing there.  Last year I tried to play Portstewart about a month before the Irish Open, but the preparation process had the course set up to optimize conditions for the toirnament, so I opted not to play, as there were many drop areas to protect fairways, some tees were closed etc. 


So June won't be a good month to go to Ballyliffin.


As someone who played 23 different courses on my first trip to Ireland, I came to appreciate the fact that the lower tier courses and clubs have a special character and some offer good craic.   I have generally returned to places where I felt welcome and many of the lower tier courses offer a warm welcome.


Email a couple of them, offer a couple of dates, and tell them you are on a family holiday and have an interest in playing the course.  I am more inclined to go places that are not burdensome to access.  If one won't work for some reason, maybe it wasn't meant to be.


I have yet to play a course in Donegal I didn't like and wouldn't go back to.  Most are ranked between 4 and 6 on the Doak Scale, which means they are all worth a play if you are in the area.


If you stay at Rosapenna, they once offered stay and play psckages that included Portsalon and one or both of the Rosapenna courses.


Take a look at Google maps for driving times.  That might clarify options.


Charles Lund

[Sean_A]

Garland

My photos seem to remain alive for some reason.  I expect they haven't caught up with me...yet.  When I look at the map it tells the story of why I prefer the oddly named Strand Nine to the Valley Nine...more rumpled and interesting land. 

Ciao

Interesting-I always felt the valley nine was the best 9 holes on the property-a bit more subtle.
The Strand nine reminds me a bit of Ballyliffin-nice holes but not the maturity and variety of the Valley-and I guess I'm just not as big of  a fan of big dunes as I thought I was.
I wasn't crazy about the Coastguard 9 the first time I played it because of the condos on the one high hole but I think I preferred it to the Strand 9 which just didn't grab me.
I think a lot of it is just all the routing and design changes have kind've killed the cohesiveness and rytthym of the place-that and the big yellow building in the middle

The two nines are very different and don't work together well as a cohesive course.  The Valley 9 (which should be called The Strand 9) has three very dull holes imo, 10,11 & 18.  To me this sets a poor tone for the nine holes.  I think some Strand holes are being over-looked in all the ga gaing over the bigger scale Valley 9.  The short holes are good, not as good as Valley's though. #s 3 & 9 are very good...the 9th being the best hole on the property imo because it is quite distinct from the remainder of the course.  The 8th too is good in an odd way.  I guess I prefer tighter routings in general.  The entire Strand 9 reminds me of the Cruden Bay's 11 & 12...a part of the course which I really like and admire for how it is fitted together.  Also, a big issue for me with the Valley 9 was the awful rough.  The Strand 9 was narrower, but the rough was much better managed....a combo I prefer to wider fairways and lost ball rough.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

As someone who played 23 different courses on my first trip to Ireland, I came to appreciate the fact that the lower tier courses and clubs have a special character and some offer good craic.   I have generally returned to places where I felt welcome and many of the lower tier courses offer a warm welcome.


Email a couple of them, offer a couple of dates, and tell them you are on a family holiday and have an interest in playing the course.  I am more inclined to go places that are not burdensome to access.  If one won't work for some reason, maybe it wasn't meant to be.
I have yet to play a course in Donegal I didn't like and wouldn't go back to.  Most are ranked between 4 and 6 on the Doak Scale, which means they are all worth a play if you are in the area.
Take a look at Google maps for driving times.  That might clarify options.


Charles Lund

That advice belongs in a Guidebook.
I will add that with his wife in tow and sightseeing being part of the deal. The Wild Atlantic way provides some spectacular drives.
Since you're playing N&P, I'd take a 30 minute detour south down to Slieve League-which makes the Cliffs of Moher look like child's play.Make Sleieve League your first Donegal destination from Dublin and then work north and west.
 Heading north after N &P ,Cruit is right on the way as is Gweedore, Dunfanaghy, Rosapenna, and Portsalon has a spectacular drive in if you take the Bridge over near Rosapenna. Northwest is a tiny detour and you can even take a ferry from Rathmullen in June over. I'd recommend a drive exactly on that route (incorporating the highlights of the Wild Atlantic Way-including a few famous pubs) and more than likely you could book one of the courses on very short notice-and you and your wife could enjoy a relaxed incredibly scenic itinerary

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
Lack of cohesion is exactly what Rosapenna suffers from-and always has even when crossing the road-walking through that ghastly parking lot from 9-10 kills it. I'd say reversing the nines would help.
I liked Strand 8, don't get the fuss over 9.
Ironically, the rough on Valley used to be the mosts managed due to maturity.


I hated playing Islay(though I loved the course) for just that reason-very narrow fairways with auto lost ball rough. Could see the geatness but needed two more gang mower passes on each side of every fairway.Obviously it's been tweaked since then-though I'm sure I didn't like the reason they did.

[jeffwarne]

Portsalon 1st has been designed out by Paul McGinley I believe. Not sure what it is being replaced with. I will find out.

Also not sure whether construction has finished or even started.
Ally

This just in-and a big sigh of relief.



Hi Jeff
Good to hear from you. Thank you for your very kind words on our golf course. Like all good courses we are always looking to improve our course. There are no plans to change first present however it has been looked at by Paul mc Ginley in the overall plan for the course. It has not been discussed and would need the approval of the members before that would happen. However on a list of priorities for the course it would be years away.
Also to let you know we have moved to 16^th in the rankings and our 2^nd hole has been voted toughest in Ireland, please see attached. We look forward to welcoming you back and if you require any help with hotels or anything please let us know.
Martin353 74 9159459

• 00     353 86 0661609
  Paul Mc Ginley Golf Course Design
  Ranked 16^th Best Course  in Ireland
  Hole 2, Toughest hole in Ireland
  Hidden Gem 2013 & 2014

Good God what a fonting mess!
aaarrrrrrggggghhhhh...


Bottom line
#1 at Portsalon not changing anytime soon


Hi

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