[Jeff_Brauer]

As an aside, the lake off 18 is an old mine pit, and it's something like 450 feet deep. Scuba divers go down there occasionally and find somewhat uncanny stuff that littered the pit before it was filled. Thankfully it's far enough away that there shouldn't be any golf balls down there.

As an aside to your aside, its probably more like 600 feet deep. In photos, you can see a concrete pier in the lake, which supported a conveyor belt to get ore to the top of the railroad loading dock, and one of those tracks ran on the cart path of 17, and turned into the grass bunker behind 18 green. 


And, I suggested that pier in the middle of the lake as prime location for the architectural suggestion box......

[Jim Franklin]

I have The Quarry at #3 of the 11 I have played. I won’t say my top 2 at this time, but there really are not many modern courses let alone courses I would rather play. While it is a pain in the ass to get to, it is well worth the trip.

[Jeff Shelman]

I have The Quarry at #3 of the 11 I have played. I won’t say my top 2 at this time, but there really are not many modern courses let alone courses I would rather play. While it is a pain in the ass to get to, it is well worth the trip.

Jim, it is even a pain in the ass to get to if you are just coming from Minneapolis.


But it is quite good.

[Brian Finn]

I have The Quarry at #3 of the 11 I have played. I won’t say my top 2 at this time, but there really are not many modern courses let alone courses I would rather play. While it is a pain in the ass to get to, it is well worth the trip.

It's funny, The two courses at Giants Ridge are the only two courses in MN that I have played.  I visited my college roommate, and we did two days up there, then two days at the '09 PGA.  I loved both courses at Giants Ridge.  Now, I need to get back and play a few courses a bit closer to MSP, so that I can weigh in on the rest.  Great thread - very well done.

[BHoover]

I never made it up to Biwabik to play either course at Giants Ridge. But based on the photos, that was a mistake. I will have to head up there at some point, despite the mosquitoes the size of small birds!

[Jeff Shelman]

I have The Quarry at #3 of the 11 I have played. I won’t say my top 2 at this time, but there really are not many modern courses let alone courses I would rather play. While it is a pain in the ass to get to, it is well worth the trip.

It's funny, The two courses at Giants Ridge are the only two courses in MN that I have played.  I visited my college roommate, and we did two days up there, then two days at the '09 PGA.  I loved both courses at Giants Ridge.  Now, I need to get back and play a few courses a bit closer to MSP, so that I can weigh in on the rest.  Great thread - very well done.

Finn,


You know where to find us. We have plenty of guys who are happy to host and there are some other places that are easy to land.

[Peter Pallotta]

To the outside eye, The Quarry says 'northern Minnesota mining' just as well as Wolf Point says 'south Texas grazing'.  That's just the way it should be -- why else travel to play golf if not to experience 'the place' in microcosm?
Well done, Mr. B!   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Peter,


I agree, and thanks for the nice comment. One of the criticisms of modern architecture, since the days of RTJ, is that its too easy transport one style/brand across the globe.  A Florida course used to be different than a Minnesota course. It still is in turf, etc., but much less so in architecture.  Probably the nicest compliment I can recall was from Brad Klein who thought that if no one told you, you wouldn't know the same architect built both courses at Giant's Ridge.  Sometimes, the difference in ecology is only a few miles apart.


A bit of back story, while the Quarry (holes 17-18) was an iron ore site, just on the other side of the road the geology was much different, and it was a sand and gravel quarry for the other holes.  But, it wasn't full developed.  The big hole in the ground you see on the 2nd and 7th hole was really the topsoil mine for the first Legends course, which was build on a rocky site and needed a cap.

Sometimes, the difference in ecology is only a few feet apart......

Those steep banks on 13 were natural spoil piles.  They didn't show up on any topo map, but we discovered them on a site walk and of course, couldn't not use them, turning what had been a more ordinary hole into something pretty unique.

[Sean_A]

Thanks to those who are making this thread a keeper. 

I recall seeing pix of Giant's Ridge many years and being impressed...then I looked at the map...heavy sigh.

Town & Country has me intrigued because of the wide range of scores.  Is there a picture thread?

Ciao

[Jason Thurman]

Sean, see Pat's excellent Town & Country tour here: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59617.0.html

[Morgan Clawson]

Regarding Town and Country -

I rated Town and Country as high as anyone in our group, with a 7.

I believe that part of the ethos of the Doak Scale is to identify courses that unique, and Town and Country delivers on that. 

The course is quite hilly and some of the holes march straight up and down the hills, rather than trying to skirt them.  The routing is very unique with 2 par 3s in a row on the front , and a par 3,5,5,5,3 finish.  Driver is not the automatic choice on some of the par 4s.  There are distinct optional lines of play on some holes.  Management is doing a great job at making the course more playable and fun with tree reductions, and expanded fairways and greens.  Town and Country is fun and unique and certainly "worth checking out if you are anywhere within 100 miles".

Teaser alert:  If you love Town and Country, you may not love our 8th rated course ...

[John Crowley]

Regarding Town and Country -

I rated Town and Country as high as anyone in our group, with a 7.

I believe that part of the ethos of the Doak Scale is to identify courses that unique, and Town and Country delivers on that. 

The course is quite hilly and some of the holes march straight up and down the hills, rather than trying to skirt them.  The routing is very unique with 2 par 3s in a row on the front , and a par 3,5,5,5,3 finish.  Driver is not the automatic choice on some of the par 4s.  There are distinct optional lines of play on some holes.  Management is doing a great job at making the course more playable and fun with tree reductions, and expanded fairways and greens.  Town and Country is fun and unique and certainly "worth checking out if you are anywhere within 100 miles".

Teaser alert:  If you love Town and Country, you may not love our 8th rated course ...




Morgan,
I agree with your views on T&C.
But, I “love” them both! - T&C and #8 for different reasons.
John

[PCCraig]

#8 - Minneapolis Golf Club, Saint Louis Park

The following introduction was contributed by John Crowley, former member of #8 on our list, Minneapolis Golf Club:

Minneapolis Golf Club was founded in 1916 and relocated and laid out on rolling  sandy loam soil farm land by Willie Park Jr. in 1917. To accommodate a new clubhouse location. Donald J. Ross was engaged to re-route and revise the course in 1920.




A copy of the Donald Ross plan for Minneapolis Golf Club

MGC was established by members of the Minneapolis Athletic Club and has through its history been known as the regional “players” club. The club has attracted a high percentage of single digit handicap players over the years. The club dominated both the regular and senior Twin Cities private club golf leagues for decades.

MGC has hosted numerous local, regional and national amateur and professional competitions: Western Amateur 1940; U.S. Amateur 1950; PGA Championship 1959; Minnesota State Opens (6); Minnesota Amateur Championships (4); Minnesota PGA (1); Minnesota Golf Campions (33); Other MGA events and regional/national qualifiers (29).

The course routing is a classic era returning loops style. The first nine takes the player counterclockwise and the second moves you clockwise to the clubhouse. The direction of the holes is well balanced, 6 North; 4 South; 4 East; 4 West. The walks from greens to tees are short and cart paths are minimal, only to connect greens and following tees and tees to the start of fairways. Most members walk.

The fairways are wide enough to allow for strategic placement and the fairway bunkering is well placed. The medium sized greens are predominately sloped back to front and the putting surfaces are smooth (except for a very difficult Spring of 2017) and usually quite fast. Generally it is wise to keep the ball below the hole. The green side bunkering is consistent with classic era design and requires a good approach shots. In the late 1990’s and early 2000’s hundreds of trees were culled. More could go but most that obstructed play are gone.

Most holes are relatively straight, with one long dogleg and a very good short one. The par 3’s vary in length, one short, one long, two medium. The 4’s are two short, four long and six medium. The 5’s are all medium length, for today’s game, and generally provide birdie opportunities.

Ben Crenshaw said in 1999: “This is a wonderful old course. Do all that you can to preserve it classic integrity.”

In 2003 the club engaged Ron Prichard to create a Master Plan for the restoration of the course to the D. J. Ross Plan. Prichard’s plan (shown with Ron’s permission) called for expanding greens to the original fill pads, leveling and squaring of tees, culling of trees and reintroduction of former bunkers.



Ron Prichard's 2003 Master Plan
The club chose not to have Ron supervise the implementation of his plan. The partial implementation has resulted in improvements. A contractor working from a two dimensional plan cannot adequately apply the artistic three dimensional vision of an experienced architect, so the result is not what it might have been.

MGC remains a course that is considered fair and challenging.

John Crowley


Here are a few photos of Minneapolis Golf Club. For a complete tour, please see the following link: http://bglf.com/f31b3

Looking back at the par-5 3rd:

The greensite at the par-4 8th:

The long par-3 10th:


A view of the par-4 18th:

[Jeff Shelman]

One of the things I like about Minneapolis is that the golf course is the first, second and third priorities.

Also, they are in the process of taking down 150+ trees this winter. Some of the pics I have gotten from a member friend look pretty good.

[Jason Topp]

Like many area courses, this one sits on very nice land with enough hills to create interest without imposing a difficult walk.  While the bunker revisions did not come close to meeting the Ron Prichard's vision, it did significantly improve the course.  When I have played the course since that project I have often found a fairway bunker in a spot where I would otherwise aim.  For me, that is the sign of a well placed fairway bunker. 

The 8th green is always the feature I think of first with Minneapolis.  It is somewhat crudely cut out of a side-hill.  For whatever reason I sometimes like a feature that is clearly artificial but does not pretend to be anything else.  Most others will think of the long par 3 10th, which is one of the more difficult holes in the area. 


The course has a large number of straight holes, but the land creates enough variety that one does not notice until after the round.   

[BHoover]

I like Minneapolis GC because it tends to favor a draw, which just happens to be my tendency.

[Jason Thurman]

Morgan (or someone else), why would someone who loves Town & Country not necessarily love Minneapolis GC? I know absolutely nothing about Minneapolis GC, other than what's been discussed in this thread so far.


Anybody else starting to feel like a(nother) trip to Minnesota for golf is in order? I sure wish there were an awesome opportunity I could take advantage of to play some of the great courses up there in 2018... you know, when the weather is a little better than it is now.

[PCCraig]

I think Minneapolis Golf Club is a very solid course.


It sits on a really nice piece of rolling land and the course is distinctly "parkland" in nature with a lot of mature trees.


The course reminds me a lot of many I grew up playing on the north shore of Chicago. In places it reminds me a lot of Evanston, Exmoor, North Shore, etc.


It is certainly a challenge from the back tees. As John notes in its write up it has been well known as a club that attracts a fair amount of very good players. That seems apparent in the historical presentation of the golf course with holes that have been stretched with way back tees to achieve a 7,000+ yard course, tight driving corridors, and small greens. Yard-for-yard it might be one of the most difficult courses in Minnesota. (Heck, the middle tees are 6,500 yards). 


That being said, a lot of the tactics used to make the course more difficult over the years I think has taken away from what could be a very charming and fun golf course. The course could stand to remove a LOT of trees, both widening the playing corridors as well as opening views across the property. The fairways and mowing patterns could also stand to be reviewed and reconsidered.


There are some really good holes there. The stretch from 7-9 is really solid, and I also really like holes 11-14.


I'm very glad to see Jeff Mingay working with the club and that they are working on tree removals.

[PCCraig]

Morgan (or someone else), why would someone who loves Town & Country not necessarily love Minneapolis GC? I know absolutely nothing about Minneapolis GC, other than what's been discussed in this thread so far.

Not to speak for Morgan, but perhaps he is alluding to the general feeling that Minneapolis has the reputation of being a longer and harder golf course. Minneapolis right now would fit the mold of a 1990's US Open course a bit...long, tight, trees, rough, small greens. T&C as you know might be described as shorter and more quirky..."easy" by many. Or maybe the simplest way to describe the difference is that MGC has little "quirk"...it's all right in front of you...very T&C which has significant quirk.

[PCCraig]

Anybody else starting to feel like a(nother) trip to Minnesota for golf is in order? I sure wish there were an awesome opportunity I could take advantage of to play some of the great courses up there in 2018... you know, when the weather is a little better than it is now.

You're welcome anytime, Jason! Maybe this summer? The primary point of this thread isn't to debate if Minneapolis Golf Club should be ranked #8 or #9 in the state, but to show and discuss the depth and quality of the courses here.

[John Crowley]

To see some of the best features of MGC go to the BluGolf link and look at these photos:


Tees: 4, 9, 10, 11


Fairways: 7, 9, 12


Greens: 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 18

[Morgan Clawson]

Jason Thurman,

Thank you for following along so closely.

Town and Country is one of the most unique high quality courses in the state.  There is a tremendous amount of variety in the holes.   The land is dramatic which helped create a unique routing and some nice quirk.  For some, Town and Country is too quirky and the hills too extreme.

Minneapolis is a more straight forward and traditional course. You're not going to see anything particularly unique or dramatic here.  It's good, solid, and challenging golf.

I have played Minneapolis quite a few times and I enjoy it.  I just wish it was a little more interesting from an architectural standpoint.

[PCCraig]

To see some of the best features of MGC go to the BluGolf link and look at these photos:

Tees: 4, 9, 10, 11
Fairways: 7, 9, 12
Greens: 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 18

Just to help everyone out, please see below:

4th Tee

9th Tee

10th Tee

11th Tee

7th Fairway

9th Fairway

12th Fairway

9th Green

10th Green

13th Green

14th Green

18th Green

[Rick Shefchik]

Sam Snead played an exhibition match at MGC in 1940, a few months before the Western Amateur was held there, and praised it as a course that made him hit his long irons. When the 1959 PGA was played at MGC, players still found the course demanded solid long iron play, and most compared it favorably to Winged Foot, where they'd recently played the U.S. Open. It was commonly thought MGC would get a U.S. Open of its own within a decade. Though that didn't happen (Tot Heffelfinger's building of Hazeltine in the early 1960s the primary reason), MGC retained its reputation as a long, straightforward challenge for the next half-century. The challenge doesn't end when you reach the green, either; slopes on #1, #9, #10, #8, #13 and #18 can easily lead to 3-putts or worse. Bring your A game.

[PCCraig]

#7 (Tie)- Golden Valley Country Club, Golden Valley

Coming in at a tie for #7 is Golden Valley CC. The following introduction was prepared by Jeff Shelman who called the course home during the 2017 season:

Golden Valley Country club is located just west of downtown Minneapolis (only a little more than 5 miles west of where the Twins play at Target Field). It features a Tillinghast design on a piece of property that while a bit awkward because of a road and a train line through the property that is rolling and has Basset Creek running through it.

According to Rick Shefchik’s book “From Fields to Fairways,” Bendelow designed the initial course in 1914. Tillinghast designed a completely new course in 1925. In the ate ‘90s, the club underwent a restoration of the bunkers led by Ron Forse. The course is a par 73 (6 par 5s, 5 par 3s) and is about 7000 yards from the back tees and 6500 yards from the tees where most members play from.

Golden Valley is a nice mix of challenge and fun. The course is reasonably roomy off of the tee, but there are several holes with clear better sides to approach from. The greenside bunkers are deep, requiring players to hit good approach shots. The greens - many of which are elevated - have a decent amount of slope and are often quick. Above the hole is rarely a good option.

The course has three pretty different segments. South of Golden Valley Rd is the clubhouse, range, holes 1-4 and 18. Holes 5, 15, 16 and 17 are in the property between the road and the train tracks. North of the train tracks are holes 6-14. Each section has some pretty good holes and it works.

Some of my favorite holes include:

No. 3 (375 yards from the 6500 tees) is a par 4 that plays down off of the tee and then up to a sloped green.
No. 4 (324 yards) is a dogleg right par 4 where you have to decide what to hit off the tee, commit to a line and then find a way to get it on a well protected green.
No. 5 (161 yards). This par 3 plays uphill to a diagonal green. The further right the pin is on this green, the longer the carry over a pair of stair-stepped bunkers. If you play for the safe side of the green, don’t go too far or you will end up in the bunker over the green
No. 9 (382 yards) is one of the few holes where bunkers jut into the fairway. You have to avoid bunkers right and left. Once you do that, you have to hit an elevated green where anything above the pin is going to bring 3-putt into the equation. Over the green is somewhere between kind of dead and absolutely dead as more than about 2 yards over the green and you’re going to go out of bounds.
No. 11 (153 yards) is a cool par 3 that Tilly just found that plays over the creek.
No. 12 (395 yards) is a really good par 4. The landing area is pretty big, but the approach requires a precise shot. A miss short is OK, but right, left or long will leave you in one of the deepest bunkers on the golf course.
No. 15 (402 yards) has the railroad tracks on the left that are out of bounds. With the fairway tilting to the right, you have to play down the left to keep the ball in the fairway. If you play away from OB, you will likely hit your approach from the rough. This green slopes hard from back right to front left. Putts from above the hole are quite speedy.

What keeps GV from being at the same level as some of the top clubs in town (in my opinion) are three awkward holes. No. 6 is a short par 5 with the creek running across the fairway. With the fairway sloping toward the creek, a layup is awkward at best. No. 10 is a dogleg left par 5 where driver isn’t always the right play and you have to hit a good second shot to get the ball over the creek. No. 14 is a super tree-lined par 3 where you have to hit it basically down a hallway of trees to a tiny green (maybe the smallest on the course).

Overall, Golden Valley - one of only two Tillinghast courses in the state - is a very good course and is a great example of the Minnesota depth. You could argue that it could be a spot or two higher or lower in the rankings, but it’s certainly in the right neighborhood.

Here are a few photos of the course courtesy of Jeff Shelman

A general view of the rolling property:

The green at the 4th:

A passing train on the 6th:

Looking back at the par-3 8th:

The par-3 11th:

The deep greenside bunkers of Golden Valley:

The downhill par-3 17th:

Coming into the 18th:

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