[Duncan Cheslett]

I think Adrian is right in that human behaviour will be much the same wherever people are located, but that he is slightly optimistic in thinking that most members will join other clubs.


Many will of course; the real golf addicts who need their fix multiple times per week and for whom golf club membership is at the core of their life.


Others however, will enjoy their freedom to play different courses as and when the fancy takes them. As long time members of a club, they will have a wide network of local golfers with whom to organise games. WhatsApp makes this so easy these days.


I seriously wonder whether I would bother joining another club if mine folded. If I did it might well be a links course miles from home rather than another local one.

[Adrian_Stiff]

A golf course's demise by ££££ in the UK is usually because it does not have enough members and has LOST too many of those that don't play that much....the ones left are the hardcore, so why it might not be several hundred, it would be a good percentage (more than 50%) of those that remained that stick with membership, which as you say play a bit and get their moneys worth.


Two course have closed near us in the last 5 years:


One had 82 members left at shutdown we got 55.
Another had about 120, we got over 20, but there are 4 or 5 courses nearer than ours.



You will get no bleating from those who already flew the nest and those will be the Nomads.

[Jon Wiggett]

And yet the facts and figures do not back either you or Duncan up Adrian. The number of registered players is falling pretty closely to the number of members of clubs closing down suggesting most of those members are either not joining other clubs or that members of the remaining clubs are leaving at a similar rate to those who chose to join another club.


It is interesting that whilst the number of registered players is falling in Scotland at a rate of over 3% the number in England is actually rising suggesting English clubs are been more effective at recruiting new people rather than just recycling.


Once again I would point out that all your pontification about golf in Scotland is incorrect Adrian and that any business owner who is happy at the demise of competitors as a growth strategy should look closely at how such a trend might well end.

[Kalen Braley]

At the risk of being morbid, how many are closing due to members passing away or unable to play anymore...with few younger types to fill in the gaps?


Perhaps the club model is dying with the older generations.  Would be fascinating to see a breakdown of aggregate members across all clubs in the UK by age: 20-30, 30-40, etc.

[Adrian_Stiff]

At the risk of being morbid, how many are closing due to members passing away or unable to play anymore...with few younger types to fill in the gaps?


Perhaps the club model is dying with the older generations.  Would be fascinating to see a breakdown of aggregate members across all clubs in the UK by age: 20-30, 30-40, etc.

I think the normal UK golf club had a membership level of 500-600 about 15 years and further back. Gradually in that time the price has elevated so it is not such good value, easy ways to play nomadic, people die or too fragile to play and clubs lose around 10% per year. With less people interested in the game and especially in the younger sectors maybe the replacement for fresh members is only 30 new ones, so there is an averaged 20 deficit per year...over 15 years a lot of clubs are now running on a membership number of 300, I reckon I could guess the numbers at most of the clubs local to me, most are over 500, with a few strugglers. There comes a point where the club just has to realise it can't afford its place, certainly getting hard less than 300 for an 18 hole course to survive as a good facility. This pattern is probably at its strongest in Scotland as there are more closures probably lniked to the density of golf courses although the Drink Driving Laws are tighter and that has impacted the clubhouses to  point where they can't break even. In yesteryear the clubhouse may have subsidised the fees instead of a drain.


Our course has about 20% equally in the Under 30, Under 40, Under 50, Under 60...the rest.
We are a bit newer than most so attract more younger ones but generally I reckon 50% would be over 55 at most clubs in the UK, Duncan and Ryan might have better stats on those figures.

[Thomas Dai]

Clubhouses are often seen as places that don’t ‘make’ money for golf clubs or even break-even, indeed they are often perceived as the opposite.

I wonder threrefore what the implications would be of closing/selling Clubhouses and having a cheap pavilion/shed type facilities instead given that this ought to cut costs quite bit and thus permit lower subscriptions?


Would it effect membership levels though?

Would some members carry on playing because their subs would be less?

Would members leave because there’s no smart/posh Clubhouse to hold social functions and generally hang-out in?

Just curious

Atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

Clubhouses are often seen as places that don’t ‘make’ money for golf clubs or even break-even, indeed they are often perceived as the opposite.

I wonder threrefore what the implications would be of closing/selling Clubhouses and having a cheap pavilion/shed type facilities instead given that this ought to cut costs quite bit and thus permit lower subscriptions?


Would it effect membership levels though?

Would some members carry on playing because their subs would be less?

Would members leave because there’s no smart/posh Clubhouse to hold social functions and generally hang-out in?

Just curious

Atb

It does affect Membership Levels and the price you can charge. Definetly some people are golf only full stop no frills required probably happy with the saving and some would leave and join a course with a clubhouse. It is a model that might work going forward a clubhouseless golf club and the tradmodel. The quality of the architecture would have even less importance!
I have a project at the moment where the clubhouse design is for it to be run by 2 in summer and 1 in the winter, glorifed pro shop, with two toilets, you can buy a beer, toastie, chips, burger...nice patio elevated over the last green.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Clubhouses are often seen as places that don’t ‘make’ money for golf clubs or even break-even, indeed they are often perceived as the opposite.

I wonder threrefore what the implications would be of closing/selling Clubhouses and having a cheap pavilion/shed type facilities instead given that this ought to cut costs quite bit and thus permit lower subscriptions?


Would it effect membership levels though?

Would some members carry on playing because their subs would be less?

Would members leave because there’s no smart/posh Clubhouse to hold social functions and generally hang-out in?

Just curious

Atb

Certainly in England many "ordinary" golf clubs are lumbered with clubhouses far too large and expensive for their needs. Even on a busy Saturday, assuming members hang around on average for an hour after their round, all that is really required is a bar/terrace area large enough for 30-40 people offering light snacks.


Yet most clubhouses have a bar, a dining room, a large function room, and even a snooker room!


As membership levels decline and those members retained are far more "golf centred" than "club centred" a large clubhouse can easily become a heavy millstone around the neck of a club.


It has been very interesting to see how Cavendish has tackled this problem in the year that I have been a member. Three years ago the clubhouse was run entirely by the club, offered an inadequate service to members and visitors, and was hemorrhaging money.


Two years ago a couple was installed as franchisees paying a rent to the club in return for running the entire operation and taking any profit from the bar and catering. This worked well to a point - the losses were stemmed, the rent received covered utility bills and business rates, and the club's staffing levels were almost eliminated. The service provided however, was less than perfect to members and the impression gained was that the franchisees were only really concerned with lucrative weddings and functions.


This year, a member and local restaurateur took over the franchise at a far higher rental and the place has been transformed. A professional Italian chef has been installed and the quality and availability of the food offer has soared. A members' bar with private terrace overlooking the practice green has been established by voluntary contributions and labour (at zero cost to the club) enabling the main clubhouse to be open to the public without inconveniencing members in the least. Our clubhouse is now regularly packed to the gunnels with local folk enjoying a pint and a meal, together with the finest view in town from our west-facing terrace over the course and the surrounding hills. The place is buzzing.


This would have been impossible if the club had retained the management of the house.


As a result we are now attracting new members from other local clubs who enjoy the clubhouse atmosphere as much as they enjoy the course. We have also recruited a few members who have never contemplated golf before but are compelled to give it a go as a result of social visits to the club.


A smaller clubhouse is not necessarily the answer to a loss making house. Handing the place over to professionals can be an even better solution.


 

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks Duncan. Nice to hear of this Cavendish success story. It’ll be interesting to see how Adrian’s project progresses.
Easy to forget that once upon a time many a clubhouse was a wooden pavilion or even the backroom at the local pub!

Atb

[Kalen Braley]

Duncan,


I really like what you guys did there in renting it out as a proper restaurant.  Given the existing clubhouse is already a sunk cost, seems like a great way to get the millstone off your neck without having a mostly empty structure just sitting there.


I wonder how many other clubs would be able to implement something like this!

[Duncan Cheslett]

Kalen ,


It’s all about location.


At Cavendish we’re blessed in that respect. The clubhouse is in the smart end of town and in an elevated position overlooking the course and spectacular surrounding countryside. It also has a glorious outside sitting area which catches the evening sun.


Lesser locations might struggle.

[Kalen Braley]

Duncan,

True, but i'd rather have a fine meal in a basement restaurant over a mediocre meal in one with a view... any day of the week.. 

I suppose a bit depends on how remote it is too and whether there are enough locals to keep it going...

[Daryl David]

Duncan,

True, but i'd rather have a fine meal in a basement restaurant over a mediocre meal in one with a view... any day of the week.. 

I suppose a bit depends on how remote it is too and whether there are enough locals to keep it going...

I guess you haven’t spent much time in the U.K. sampling local dining. 

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan,

True, but i'd rather have a fine meal in a basement restaurant over a mediocre meal in one with a view... any day of the week.. 

Okay Smartypants,


but all other things being equal, the better location and ambience will win out!


😉

[Kalen Braley]

DD,

That's a definite no, but I have heard the legendary stories of questionable fare in those parts.  But I can't figure why given you got Gordon Ramsey at your beckon call right??! 

DC,

Great point as usual, I was mostly just messing.  Growing up my favorite restaurant was a hole-in-the-wall Mexican joint in the bad part of town. Not a place to wander about after dark, but I sure loved those burritos and fajitas.

[Jerry Kluger]

In my limited time spent in Scotland I have seen quite a few courses which are very local in nature and the course is owned by the town or village, etc. and as the younger people look to move to the cities, etc., the course loses much of the population which would normally contribute to its financial success. The vast majority of visitors do not visit these courses so they struggle to exist and have a tough time staying open.  My experience in the US has been that very few golf courses have public dining rooms which aid in their financial success. 

[Brian_Ewen]

Been the talk of the area all week ..


https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/1859085/newmachar-to-raise-fees/



Newmachar Golf Club confident they can overcome a ‘challenging financial position’
by Reporter
October 5, 2019





One of the biggest golf clubs in the north-east is raising membership fees next year after a project to upgrade its driving range cost £220,000 more than expected.


Newmachar Golf Club’s management committee contacted its 1,400 members yesterday to say they are confident they can overcome “a challenging financial position”.


The overall cost of the driving range project to date is £620,000.


A special general meeting, attended by 179 members, was held on Monday to discuss the spiralling costs.


It is understood a member paid last month’s salaries of £30,000 out of his own pocket.


A suggestion was put forward at the meeting for an immediate £200 levy to be applied to each member but the committee has agreed this will not happen.


Instead membership fees will be increased by 5% next season.


The statement to members read: “Many of you will be aware we had a meeting last year where it was agreed the driving range would be upgraded at a significant cost, which we asked you, the members, to contribute to.


“We were delighted with the response and we have a magnificent facility that many clubs around the north-east – and indeed Scotland – would yearn for.


“However, it has come to light that the project was over-budget to the tune of around £220,000.


“It has also been established the club had not achieved its funding target from members.


“This leaves us in a challenging financial position but it is one we are in the process of addressing and one we are confident we can overcome.”


It continued: “We have to grow. The present situation has led to us using our overdraft facility and we are due creditors money.


“We are in discussions with our bank to help alleviate the current situation and we have put together a solid business case for assistance.


“Part of the process will see a 5% increase in fees for next year. Many sports clubs across the country impose an increase in fees every year and we are no different.


“We have one of the best facilities in the region and we have increased our membership by nearly 18% in the last year.”


It added: “We have made mistakes and we apologise for those. However, we are confident the moves we have made and are continuing to make will resolve the current situation.”


Newmachar Golf Club features two courses – the Hawkshill and the Swailend – designed by renowned golf architect Dave Thomas.


Golf commentator Peter Alliss described the Hawkshill as “destined to become one of the top five inland courses in Britain”.


The Hawkshill opened in 1990, with the Swailend opening seven years later.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Oh dear. Who was involved in that project?


I joined Newmachar before it opened, one of the first names on the membership sheet. It was my first experience of walking a golf course through the construction period. It was also at a time when American style GCA was something new to us and we embraced especially the water hazards (of which there are plenty).


Hawkshill is an excellent course in a beautiful setting and I hope it survives. I had already left the club by the time the Swailend course opened. It always appeared superfluous and a lot less interesting.

[Jon Wiggett]

It looks a clear case of a club not looking at a facility upgrade from the business point of view nor looking after the build budget all that well. Spending £400K on a driving range is mind boggling but allowing it to then run £220K over budget is well.... I can only assume there was more to it than just covered bays, machinery and field. Having said that, if the range does not cover it's own costs then the club should not have built it. It is a lot cheaper to have a practice ground and though a range is nice it is certainly not the best place to practice for the low handicappers and higher handicappers tend not to do more than warm up.


Clubs need to learn to only spend what they can afford.

[Brian_Ewen]

https://golfweek.com/2019/10/30/british-irish-golf-clubs-continue-membership-decline/



British and Irish golf clubs continue membership decline
By: Alistair Tait | October 30, 2019


British and Irish golf club members are continuing to quit the game in worrying numbers, according to a survey published Wednesday.


KPMG’s Golf Participation Report for Europe 2019 highlights a drop in registered golfers and golf club members in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales between 2017 and 2018 that should have alarm bells ringing for golf administrators, and those running British and Irish golf clubs.


Scotland saw a drop of 7,521 registered golfers, a 4% loss, between 2017-2018. There are now 180,281 golfers registered to Scottish golf clubs compared to 187,802 in 2017.


Wales experienced a 4.06% drop from 44,551 golf club members in 2017 compared to 42,743 last year.


England, the country with the most registered golfers in Europe, had a 1.63% drop. There were 645,151 registered golfers in 2018 against 655,839 in 2017.


Ireland remained largely static, with just a 0.58% decline. The Emerald Isle lost 1,063 registered golfers to take its participation rate to 182,398 in 2018.


The figures continue a worrying downward trend for all four nations over the last five years, especially in Scotland and Wales. Wales has experienced a 16.92% loss from the 51,445 registered golfers in 2014.


Scotland has seen a 14.07% decline. The Home of Golf had 209,812 registered players in 2014. England is down 9.43% from 712,390 players five years ago. Despite Ireland’s marginal loss between 2017 and 2018, it has experienced an 8.59% drop since 2014 when there were 199,550 golf club members.


In total, the four nations have lost 122,625 golf club members in five years, a 10.43% decline.


The KPMG report does not include golfers who do not belong to a golf club, or those who have quit their memberships but still play. However, the figures make grim reading for those trying to grow the game in Great Britain & Ireland.


 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Nothing we don't really know. We have almost ALL agreed that the traditional UK membership packages are shrinking and golfers that were members are now still golfers but just pay and play and play less. The reason mainly is there are attractive cost saving options elsewhere by paying and playing. Lowest price is the key driver.


There will always be a few that give up and few new ones that take up.


What really needs to happen is golfers play more.

[Brock Lynch]

I'd like to know the numbers on female golfers. It seems to me that this is an untapped resource in this country and likely in the UK. Is there no hope of more ladies taking up the game?

[Jon Wiggett]

Nothing we don't really know. We have almost ALL agreed that the traditional UK membership packages are shrinking and golfers that were members are now still golfers but just pay and play and play less. The reason mainly is there are attractive cost saving options elsewhere by paying and playing. Lowest price is the key driver.


There will always be a few that give up and few new ones that take up.


What really needs to happen is golfers play more.

Spot on. Clubs that have been innovative are doing okay and those with their head in the sand continue to struggle.

[Jeff Schley]

The reason mainly is there are attractive cost saving options elsewhere by paying and playing. Lowest price is the key driver.

As an American looking at UK yearly member fees, which are lower by a multiple of 10 or more for nicer clubs, how much lower can they get?  If people aren't playing golf because they want lower priced golf, is it even realistic to run a club on such a small amount of membership funds? Inflation typically is ....... upwards, so golf fees should go in the same direction.

[Jon Wiggett]

The reason mainly is there are attractive cost saving options elsewhere by paying and playing. Lowest price is the key driver.

As an American looking at UK yearly member fees, which are lower by a multiple of 10 or more for nicer clubs, how much lower can they get?  If people aren't playing golf because they want lower priced golf, is it even realistic to run a club on such a small amount of membership funds? Inflation typically is ....... upwards, so golf fees should go in the same direction.

Jeff,


if the UK golf followed the US model it would be dead. Thankfully this is not the case.

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