Golf in Scotland is sinking fast

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17269972.paul-lawrie-welcomes-scottish-golfs-app-ier-digital-future-at-national-conference/



Paul Lawrie welcomes Scottish Golf's App-ier digital future at national conference
By Nick Rodger
Golf Correspondent


Having forged a glory-laden, money-spinning playing career, while enjoying a variety of lucrative sidelines as one of Scottish golf’s great ambassadors, most folk assume that Paul Lawrie has the kind of golden touch that would make Midas look like a pauper.


In this business, though, not everything is an overflowing cash cow. At yesterday’s Scottish Golf national conference in Edinburgh, the 1999 Open champion unveiled the challenges his own golf centre in Aberdeen faces. He also gave a ringing endorsement of the governing body’s plan to roll out a new and free digital platform and App to help clubs fully exploit income from pay-as-you-go golfers in an age when only 21 per cent of those playing the game in its birthplace are actual members of clubs.


“The golf industry has not gone through the best of times and hasn't done for a long, long time and our facility currently runs at a slight loss every year,” he said. “If people who are not members of a club are able to have a handicap, and that then meant a club like ours was able to lay on a competition that would see 40 or 50 new golfers paying a green fee every week, then that could be the difference. That would be a lot of money for a golf club like our one that loses money.


"I had a wee look at the App and it is just phenomenal. For a golf centre like us it will be great to have this free App. Who's not wanting to want that as a golf club? We will certainly be using it and we will be embracing it to try and turn a corner for us. I think it will."


The company behind the technology, OCS, have an impressive, global pedigree and its representatives confidently declared that “we guarantee revenue.”


The nomadic golfing market is huge and the main aim of the App is to get that group to book their rounds directly with the clubs rather than an outside website. Those clubs will retain every penny of the green fee.


“I’d hope that people like that might play a course a few times and say ‘you know what, I might want to be a member here?’,” said Scottish Golf chief executive, Andrew McKinlay. “It will give clubs an opportunity to get them in as members. But even if they don’t, it’s still a great revenue generator.”


Yesterday’s gathering, which was attended by around 450 folk of various golfing walks of life, was a largely upbeat and wide-ranging forum which promoted innovation and fresh thinking while attempting to address long-standing issues which continue to make for grim reading. The well-documented statistic, for instance, that only 13 per cent of Scotland’s membership is female remains something of a plook on the game’s complexion. “It’s not good enough,” said McKinlay bluntly.


In addition, around 83 per cent of clubs still have their main men’s competition reserved for a Saturday which alienates the working woman. “Women don’t have equal opportunities,” added Ross Duncan, Scottish Golf’s development director. “Change requires a significant shift in attitude.”

[John Kavanaugh]

Maybe that "model" that you guys always bragged about failed. It's not so hard to understand why you can't have a private course open to the public. Too bad, it always sounded so nice for the hit and runners.

[Mark Chaplin]

Lou I’m not a member of Brora or Tain so don’t know the numbers but they are 100% on the visitor trail and I’m guess a considerable percentage of their income comes from visitor golf. I know American members of both and certainly don’t know any at Tarland where the greenkeeper’s budget - there’s only one greenkeeper - appeared reasonable until you realised that included his wages.


Jon - it’s low end member clubs struggling the most, there’s nothing left to cut and little prospect of increasing member numbers.


Of course I’m fortunate, I belong to three clubs with courses and two in St. Andrews without. The English clubs are doing very well and only one having a hard time is my US club and that’s down to local demographics, property taxes  and falling membership.


John Kavanaugh your lack of understanding of British club golf is at best embarrassing.

[Kalen Braley]

Lou,

Its a simple question really, how much is enough?  i know we'll never agree on this issue but there are plenty of examples of "responsible" owners who resisted insane greed so others can share in the spoils.

Go look up the Costco business model and its history.  Look how well they takes care of thier employees thru pay, health care benefits, promotions, etc... while remaining extremely successful and competitive in their market niche. It doesn't have to be a small amount of people winning insanely... at the expense of everyone else.

[Lou_Duran]

Ok, Kalen says I support greed.  Sean reminds me of Christian charity and tells me to grow a heart.  All because I tried to respond to Mark Chapin's comment that golf in Scotland is sinking because it is too cheap by suggesting that we might look a little bit deeper.  I guess I am either a small person or can't write worth a lick.


I will spare the good folks here with a very elementary economics lesson that even the reddest communists in the old Soviet Union discovered quite early- prices cannot be set by fiat.  Yes, green fees/subscriptions/annual dues at many courses not just in Scotland are too low to sustain the business as a going concern.  Too many unsold tee times/excess capacity (too many courses) at even these unsustainable prices point to a demand problem.


Another writer in this thread suggests a top-down minimum green fee/subscription/annual dues solution.  Of course, this would be highly illegal under most countries' anti-trust laws.  And along with Mark's comment, it brought to mind the futility of government mandated minimum wage laws, as such price setting doesn't address the demand problem, only exacerbates it by pricing people out of the golf and labor markets.


Again, I pose the question, if a minimum wage of $15/hour is so great, why not make it $30, $50, $100?  If a golf course in Scotland has a half-empty tee sheet at £20, how will its revenue line be improved at £40?


I can certainly understand the owner of a course trying various pricing schemes to improve his operations, or the owner of a McDonald's paying $15/hour to see if he can attract better quality employees who might improve the bottom line.  Not so much for a golf federation with powers to compel or a government from requiring the same.  It is easy, however, to see how those mandated minimums would benefit golf courses and McDonald franchises operating in stronger markets by ridding them of pesky competitors who can't survive under those requirements (an important reason why labor unions most often support minimum wage laws even though their members already enjoy much higher negotiated wages).


For the record, I am a Costco member and shop there a couple of times each month.  I am also a Sam's Club member and shop there occasionally.  My buying decisions are based largely on need, convenience, availability of specific products, price, and to a much lesser extent, customer service.  While I appreciate Costco's business plan vis-a-vis its ER, it is not a deciding factor in which chain I support on a given day.  I don't see Walmart's approach as greedy at all, and to the extent that its employees are not captive, it takes some mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that they are being exploited or treated at their expense.


Want to improve golf participation and # of rounds played?  Let people who are normally drawn to the game keep more of their hard-earned money.  If women and other lowly represented groups can be enticed to play, all the better.  Escapegoating and insulting those who pay the vast majority of taxes with accusations of greed probably won't get the job done.  And if you think that a golf federation or a government can compel prosperity by repealing the laws of supply and demand, you may wish to study any number of countries who have tried it in the past century.  Not too good a story for golf.


Peace!  [size=78%]           [/size]


 

[Rich Goodale]

Bingo, Lou.


Let me know when you cross the pond again, and have a great holiday season (and that applies to all you fellow wing-nuts out there).


Rich

[Ryan Coles]

Lou


Your guy Adam Smith was with you on the minimum wage. But are you with him on his views on a Land Tax. In golfing terms, the latter would seem more harmful than the former for the Club owner?


Re impact of minimum wage, I’m no economist, but in this Country, scarcity of affordable homes meant that the Govt were effectively subsidising poverty pay in the form of housing benefit and despite squeezing business for £8 an hour, still are. You may well argue and I may well agree that the planning system is suppressing the building of more homes...


Should the Govt be paying someone’s rent to someone who owns hundreds of properties all the while that person is paid a pittance by a global multinational company not paying anything like the going rate of tax?


The minimum wage came here much later than the US amidst much hand wringing that it would kill jobs. But whether by coincidence or not, Unemployment actually fell and for the first time in a long time, the poor were better off financially working than they were on welfare.


If you can’t afford to pay your staff £8 an hour, do you have a viable business anyway? Or more likely if you have an endless supply of cheap migrant labour, do you care?


In golf terms the minimum wage has probably hit Clubs quite hard. Though you’ll never hear me begrudging staff £8 an hour. What it has probably done is suppress the wages of those on £9 to £12 such as greenstaff as Clubs rob Peter to Pay Paul.


I actually think Clubs in the UK will start struggling to recruit and retain green staff below deputy level. Those with a bit about them already do bits and pieces on the side and many have left the golf industry and made a go out of landscaping and gardening instead. I guess the wealthy are paying them direct, rather than through their golf...


As to why the government don’t triple the Minimum wage it’s because they are merely tinkering. They want to redistribute wealth but they know if they tip things too far it stifles the wealth they have to redistribute.


Us lefty Europeans look at levels of poverty amongst your bottom
Percentile and compare it to the lot at our bottom percentile and we aren’t queuing up to sign up for it, despite knowing that your model is better for the other 95% and indeed golf.

[Niall C]

Are we still debating the demise of Scottish golf ? 

If we are let me make a couple of observations;

The gist of this thread is that golf in Scotland is in decline and the barometer they seem to be using to back up that assertion is that clubs in Scotland are struggling. The body making this claim is the Scottish Golf Union which is also struggling, both in terms of credibility and funding.

Their solution to this perceived decline in golf is to make it easier for non-members to book courses. They also haven’t given up solving their own funding issues by doubling the levy on members who in the main comprise ordinary club golfers. That will help pay for the new booking system.

So to recap, they are asking clubs (as proxy to members ?) to vote for their own demise. I’m sure there is a saying about Christmas and turkey’s.

Niall

Ps. I might add that the individual within the SGU promoting this runs a technology and internet business. 

[Ryan Coles]

Niall


All home Unions like to build empires for themselves. Decline in Memberships means decline in their funding and their empires and beurocracies get cut.


They are chasing revenue from nomadic golfers and encouraging clubs into suicide schemes so they can extract their affiliation fee.


I’ve said for a while a fairer way for governing bodies to be funded is on percentage on turnover or rateable value of the Club. Otherwise huge swathes of the Sports participants pay nothing back to the National Union. 


Also, The affiliation fee per member is the same whether you’re at Sunningdale or Shitsville.


England Golf after their ruinous purchase and set up at Woodhall Spa are  working with and appointing a local person to work with and liaise with Local Clubs. This is a positive step and our County Support Officer is excellent. But they undermine this positive restructure by targeting the Support Officers and coercing things like Play More Golf onto the vulnerable and gullible.


All this said, I agree with Sean that they didn’t get Clubs into the mess and they won’t get Clubs out. They can help and they can annoy but ultimately bigger issues are the cause of the malaise. 

[Kalen Braley]

Lou,

You are not a poor writer, not even close.  I have read what you have written and disagree with it, simple as that.  But then again this isn't my first rodeo on this topic. Between an Econ minor in college and countless discussions on the topic I think I have a pretty good grasp of at least the basics..

If you are greedy and support unfettered wealth accumulation then fine, just own it.. we're all infected with it to a certain extent. 

[Thomas Dai]

The high level golf bodies shouldn’t be let off the hook too lightly. There is a trickle down effect within the game.
Did not golf bodies in the UK, one in particular, in many ways encourage the over-supply golf-slump of the moment by advocating in the 1990’s that we needed loads and loads more courses?
Also, has not the reluctance of the golf bodies over many decades to roll-back the distance element within the game and reduce the time it takes to play the game enhanced the ‘golf takes too long to play’ issue?
And is not the desire of the golf bodies to manicure (over-maintain) courses where they play their premium events responsible for clubs spending more and more money to copy that level of presentation on a day-to-day basis?
I’m sure there are other examples.
Atb

[Niall C]

Ryan

Not just golf unions but all sorts of representative organisations. For instance the professional body for my profession and that I’m a member of, used to be about serving the individual members. In the last 15 to 20 years they have gone from being predominantly UK to having a global reach. Where they used to be there to serve the member, you often feel you’re there to serve them with no accountability. The last Chief Exec of the organisation was paid something like 5 or 6 times that of average wage of the members. It all smacks of tail wagging the dog.

So I very much agree about empire building but that is what happens when you have professional administrators.

I also agree that perhaps some are overstating the golf unions powers but there is no doubt they can have a strong influence in the direction of travel for a lot of golf clubs. In this instance I tend to think it would be better if they did nothing. As you allude to, the wider economy has a big bearing as does a lot of decisions made in the good times that some clubs are probably regretting now. However with some on the precipice they could probably do without the SGU advising them to jump off the edge.

Where I differ with you is the differential rates for different members. That then gives someone at a big expensive club a greater say than someone at a cheaper club. Of course it won’t ever be presented like that, but that would be the reality.

Niall

[Ryan Coles]

Niall


I’m not suggesting that each Club be given voting rights in proportion to affiliation fee. Currently each club has one vote, regardless of the amount raised in fees at that particular Club.


The point is the affiliation fee per person is the same whether you’re a 16 year old kid at a muni in Liverpool paying £70 per annum subs, or whether your a member of the wisley paying 10k. The affiliation fees of £20 odd are disproportionate to the sub paid.


The home unions would be better served charging clubs rather than individuals an affiliation fee. It means that the Union gets a fee from the nomadic golfer in the form of % of turnover and achieves the same aim.


Instead they are advocating crazy play more golf schemes because it’s a way to tap into nomadic golfers and get a fee from them to feed their empire, but it comes at the expense of the long term well being and viability of the Club.

[Niall C]

Ryan

Hands up, I'm not at all sure how voting rights work with the SGU. It may well be that constitutionally only clubs are allowed to vote and each club has one vote. However I was under the impression that any individual member of the SGU had a vote ? Could be wrong about that but if it is the case as you suggest then that is even less representative. It also makes it even less explicable why the SGU are advocating something that will harm most of their members (ie. clubs) in the long run.

I wonder if there are any Scottish clubs out there who aren't affiliated to the SGU ?

Niall

[Rich Goodale]

Niall


I would guess Muirfield (or HCEG, to be posh).  They have their own handicapping system and members who want to play open competitions use their handicaps under control of their 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th, ad infinitum other clubs to whom they belong, and are members of the SGU.


Rich

[Lou_Duran]

Kalen,


It is always easier to be generous with other people's money and jobs, but I wouldn't think very edifying upon reflection.  I am sure folks going from $7.25 to $15 are delighted, until they lose their job.  And of course, no one thinks about the high schooler who now doesn't get to develop job skills, or the uneducated man or woman who would rather work while trying to better his/her life.  Who is being greedy, the progressive Millie who doesn't play golf sipping his $5 cup of coffee while making $30+/hour and flying his social justice flag, or the marginal golf operator who has to fire a third of his staff to keep the thing running?       


Ryan,


I've seen no credible evidence that setting a higher minimum wage creates jobs (and I do understand most Keynesian arguments).  Of course, you are aware that the concurrence of events do not necessarily suggest cause and effect.  Common sense would tell you that if you increase the cost of something, say labor or green fees, you will have less demand for it (c.p.).  This is specially true when the economy is lethargic and there is great overcapacity.


As to the comment that if a business can't pay a high minimum wage it is not a viable business, would you rather that it fold and its owner and employees go on the dole?  I guess it would make it better for those enterprises which can manage to float while the competition is being eliminated, but you don't see a vicious circle here?  Somebody has to work to pay taxes and buy things.


I'll go back to my original argument, create a growing economy where people can generate disposable income and the decline of golf there and here will be arrested.  This is done primarily by making government a lesser player in our economic and private lives, meaning lower taxes and fewer, smarter, very specific regulations.


Contrast the CL links and this one with the one just posted on the PGA moving to Frisco.  It's like living in two different planets. 
[size=78%] [/size]
[/size]

[Brock Lynch]

Hi all,


My wife, youngest son, and I visited St. Andrews last summer. We played 15 rounds in 12 days (my wife did not play all of those) including a day at North Berwick with lunch in between rounds. It was a great day and certainly deserves a return trip. I was checking their website recently and was disappointed to see that North Berwick had raised their day rate from 170 bp to 195 bp. That amounts to a 15% increase in one year! Testing the market?. Too many visitors? The increase relieves them of one less tee time for very seven to obtain nearly the same fees. The increase in fees at many courses has greatly increased over the past 6 to 7 years. How does this situation play a part in the landscape of Scottish Golf? Will fees return in the future when the dollar weakens and/or the economy slows down? For me, I am retiring soon and hope to visit these great venues as much as I can. However,  It appears that I may have to consider more U.S. journeys as those overseas drift out of my reach. Basic economics I suppose. Disappointing none the less.


Cheers

[Brian_Ewen]

Founded in 1893, then redesigned by Braid?   



https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/eastwood-golf-club-on-brink-of-closure-1-4925360



Eastwood Golf Club on brink of closure
MARTIN DEMPSTER
Saturday 11 May 2019


Eastwood Golf Club on the outskirts of Glasgow is close to becoming the latest Scottish club to be forced to shut its doors due to dwindling membership.


The Scotsman understands that an administrator is set to be appointed on Monday after the Renfrewshire club effectively run out of money to keep it in existence.


It is believed that a buyout had been in the pipeline, but that fell through last week, leaving a club that was founded in 1893 on the brink of closure.


“Things have taken a turn for the worse and an administrator is coming in on Monday,” said a source.


Earlier this year, the club, which sits just off the M77 close to Newton Mearns, held an open day to try and attract new members.


It also recently introduced gender-neutral tees, which were aimed at allowing golfers to play from a set of tees most suited to their ability, not their gender.


“We hope we are one of the first of many golf clubs who will make this positive step to enshrining gender equality at the heart of club golf,” said a post on the club’s Facebook page.


A handful of Scottish clubs have been closed down over the past few years, the most recent being Carrick Knowe in Edinburgh and Brunston Castle in Ayrshire.

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17847139.demise-mount-ellen-golf-club-leads-criticism-sadness/



Demise of Mount Ellen Golf Club leads to criticism and sadness
By Nick Rodger
Golf Correspondent



   
A spokesperson for Mount Ellen Golf Club, which was forced to close its doors at the weekend, has declared that they did everything they could to turn the fortunes of the Gartcosh facility around.


In the latest blow to Scotland’s club golf scene, Mount Ellen, which was formed back in 1904 and had a members list which included the late Scottish PGA secretary Peter Lloyd and the former PGA chief executive Sandy Jones (pictured below), succumbed to the financial pressures and current challenges that also led to the closure of Eastwood Golf Club near Newton Mearns recently.


While taking a swing at Scottish Golf and branding the governing body as useful as a “chocolate candle”, the Mount Ellen spokesman also detailed how the club had written to the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, outlining the dire straits into which many clubs have been plunged.


He said: "We've tried so many different things. Gartcosh is in the middle of an unbelievable amount of housing development. All the big housing companies are in the area and many of them have used the golf club as a selling point. Yet when we approached them for some support, some of them wouldn't even talk to us. That beggars belief, it really does.


"The members supported the golf club with cash donations, but it still doesn't work. The average age of this golf club was about 55 and they used the facilities. They were up here two or three times per week in large numbers. That's now been taken away from them, which is heartbreaking.


"We wrote to the First Minister pointing out the pressures that golf clubs and bowling clubs are under. They passed us on to sportscotland and I knew what they would say when I phoned, which was then passing us on to Scottish Golf. Scottish Golf was as much help as a chocolate candle. Scottish Golf is doing nothing for clubs like us. They offered us a grant for £600. You think, 'honest to God'.


"We've worked our socks off here for the last three of four years. We had a forward planning group and that brought in members and doubled the junior membership. It also brought in funding but, unfortunately, not enough to keep the club going. We've put out something like 3500 flyers into the new houses to encourage people to join the golf club. We've done everything we can, but we have no more options. It really is frustrating."

Jones, who served as the PGA’s chief executive for some 25 years, expressed his sadness at Mount Ellen’s demise.


Jones, who joined the club 62 years ago, said: “It is sadly the story of golf around the country and it's the same down south.


"The whole culture of playing golf has changed. They don't need membership now because you can look on your phone, see where a tee time is available and book it.


"Mount Ellen is always going to be special in my mind for what it was. It was very much a community golf course. It was the steel works that provided the golf course. I felt really sad when I heard this news.


"Back in my days there, the golf club was the centre of the community. When I played there as a kid, I remember playing with the headmaster of the local school and the policeman in the village. You knew everybody.


"The thing about the village of Gartcosh is that it's thriving again because of the new police headquarters, where a lot of people are now employed, while there's a lot of new housing.


"I thought that might have brought in new members to Mount Ellen, but that obviously hasn't happened. I don't how you avoid closures like this these days because it is a different animal and I think there will be more casualties, sadly.”


According to Scottish Golf, it was aware of the “issues faced by Mount Ellen” and met with the club in June to discuss the “variety of services and support” it could provide to help the club.

[Niall C]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments in this thread but let me say that architecturally, Mount Ellen is no big loss. It is however a loss to a hardcore of members who no longer have a club. I hope they decide on the of the several nearby clubs instead.


Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments in this thread but let me say that architecturally, Mount Ellen is no big loss. It is however a loss to a hardcore of members who no longer have a club. I hope they decide on the of the several nearby clubs instead.


Niall

The good news is that it makes other clubs stronger, as the former members drift to the neighbours.

[Jon Wiggett]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments in this thread but let me say that architecturally, Mount Ellen is no big loss. It is however a loss to a hardcore of members who no longer have a club. I hope they decide on the of the several nearby clubs instead.


Niall

The good news is that it makes other clubs stronger, as the former members drift to the neighbours.

Adrian,


if only that were true. Most just become nomads.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments in this thread but let me say that architecturally, Mount Ellen is no big loss. It is however a loss to a hardcore of members who no longer have a club. I hope they decide on the of the several nearby clubs instead.


Niall

The good news is that it makes other clubs stronger, as the former members drift to the neighbours.

Adrian,


if only that were true. Most just become nomads.

I forgot you knew what you were talking about.

[Jon Wiggett]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments in this thread but let me say that architecturally, Mount Ellen is no big loss. It is however a loss to a hardcore of members who no longer have a club. I hope they decide on the of the several nearby clubs instead.


Niall

The good news is that it makes other clubs stronger, as the former members drift to the neighbours.

Adrian,


if only that were true. Most just become nomads.

I forgot you knew what you were talking about.

Just remind me Adrian where in Scotland you are based to be such a guru on matters in Scottish golf? Rather than been so sarcastic maybe you might just accept that there are others with legitimate views that might differ from yours and that you are not the 'font of all knowledge' you believe yourself to be.

[Adrian_Stiff]

A course closing down with members makes no difference if its Scotland or England. The pattern will still be that MEMBERS will drift into other clubs as MEMBERS. Not all obviously some will never golf again, some will just play less but the majority will join in groups at a variety of clubs.


We have had 55 members from one club that closed July 1st this year.


If they were in the MEMBER culture of enjoying team matches, competitions they will ideally stay in the mode if it is practical. Golfers turn into Nomads for other reasons but primarily geared by value. The location in the UK won't change that pattern.