PGA worthy courses in the southern tier of states

[Jim Lipstate]

Now that the decision has been made to relocate the PGA championship to May I would be interested in opinions as to which courses in the deep South, Texas, Southwest or Southern California might make suitable venues. In general the Southern states have not hosted many majors because of the excessive heat in Summer. No one wants a repeat of the darn near catastrophic 36 hole round of Ken Venturi in the '64 US Open.


As a Southerner I welcome the chance to host a major. What courses do you think are championship worthy? I am especially interested in courses that don't come quickly to mind.

[Paul Jones]

Here is my list of locations that could handle the infrastructure and a good course(s)...

TX: Champions GC
      Colonial CC
      Bluejack Natl


MS: Fallen Oak


AL: Shoal Creek


FL: Streamsong Resort

[Michael Wolf]

Shoal Creek is hosting the US Women's Open next May, and has a desire for more major events in the future. They would be the sensible option in the space between Atlanta and Texas, north of Orlando and south of (cough) Valhalla.


I'd think Champions and Colonial would be at the top of the list of Texas clubs. Especially if PGA follows their pattern of chasing $ earning potential over GCA. I'd personally like to see them take a chance on an Austin Country Club or Bluejack


Streamsong seems like it would depend on infrastructure - where would they park cars and get people out to the course to key vantage points? Trudging through hundreds of yards of sand and phosphate in May seems like a pretty taxing walk for a lot of potential patrons. Although it's proximity to MCO is certainly a draw. Would they be able to get 2k+ volunteers to help at a for-profit facility?


No chance for Fallen Oak. It's pretty remote, attached to a casino, not a good enough golf course to make the risk worth taking. Same question on attendance and volunteers.


If Peachtree and East Lake are not options for Atlanta (and they aren't), then I'd rather the PGA forget Atlanta and look somewhere along the coast EXCEPT Kiawah. Why not a Succession, Long Cove, or dare to dream, Yeomann's Hall?


Michael Wolf

[Conley Hurst]

According to their website, Trinity Forest was "created explicitly to attract prestigious golf championships back to Dallas." Seems like the best choice for the Dallas/FW area, except for perhaps Colonial. But even Colonial might be a little too cramped logistically to pull off a modern major championship.

[mike_beene]

I would hate to see the PGA come to Dallas or Ft. Worth in May. To people from my area including the number of pros who grew up or live around here, the Nelson and Colonial are perhaps a millimeter behind winning a PGA and the charitable and social impacts are huge.  Or take the Ryder Cup back to Champions. Southern Hills is a good option for us. Just a 35 minute flight.

[Mark Kiely]

I remember 1988 being an exciting PGA at Oak Tree (now Oak Tree National) in Oklahoma. The PGA has since returned for Sr. PGA Championships in 2006 and 2014, as well. A quick look at typical May weather for Edmond looks promising.


Wish I could come up with an interesting idea in my own SoCal backyard, but I can't think of anything but the usual suspects.


Because I love desert golf, I'd like to see a major in Phoenix/Scottsdale and/or the Coachella Valley, but I can't think of a proper course that warrants it AND could handle the logistics. Anyone think somewhere like Scottsdale National or Whisper Rock would/could accommodate the PGA?

[Jaeger Kovich]

Doral blue monster will be the primary target for Florida.

[Jim Hoak]

A lot of the courses suggested here already host a PGA Tour event.  Anyone other than me troubled by this?  It seems to diminish the major tournament when it is a retread of a Tour event.   Like the PGA in Charlotte this year--took one of the best courses for a regular event for the Wells Fargo; course changes just for the PGA were criticized by some for taking away from a good Tour stop.

[Jack Carney]

Calusa Pines has the infrastructure and course to host which is the only one in Florida I would think. a Streamsong composite would be interesting and I don't think access for the gallery is real that hard with extensive grandstand usage. Champions is a natural along with Shoal Creek of course. Old Waverly possible as a dark horse as is Cedar Ridge in Tulsa with the new bunkering and renovation. Mt favorite possible is Prairie Dunes as it withstood the NCAA Championship quite nicely with the new back tees however infrastructure is an issue unless they can get corporation from the neighbors

[David McIntosh]

A lot of the courses suggested here already host a PGA Tour event.  Anyone other than me troubled by this?  It seems to diminish the major tournament when it is a retread of a Tour event.   Like the PGA in Charlotte this year--took one of the best courses for a regular event for the Wells Fargo; course changes just for the PGA were criticized by some for taking away from a good Tour stop.

Jim,

I tend to agree with you and feel that hosting majors at regular tour stops detracts a little from what is supposed to be one of the four main tournaments in the year. Perhaps the reason for this is familiarity with the courses making the events feel less special. Pebble Beach seems to be the exception to this when they toughen it up for the US Open (compared to the AT&T setup) so the quality of the course seems to have a bearing on how often we accept seeing a course before the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

Not a PGA Tour venue, but the Masters is at Augusta National (another course in the top echelons of the world rankings) every year and we never hear anyone complain about that event being devalued by doing so.

[Adam Lawrence]

According to their website, Trinity Forest was "created explicitly to attract prestigious golf championships back to Dallas." Seems like the best choice for the Dallas/FW area, except for perhaps Colonial. But even Colonial might be a little too cramped logistically to pull off a modern major championship.

Steve Smyers' new Maridoe course in Dallas also has aspirations to hold significant events.

[Jim Lipstate]

A lot of the courses suggested here already host a PGA Tour event.  Anyone other than me troubled by this?  It seems to diminish the major tournament when it is a retread of a Tour event.   Like the PGA in Charlotte this year--took one of the best courses for a regular event for the Wells Fargo; course changes just for the PGA were criticized by some for taking away from a good Tour stop.

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I agree with you. Since the new schedule opens up the entire Southern part of the country I think it would be innovative and exciting to bring the tournament to venues not part of the ususal PGA Tour rota. I say kudos to the USGA for bringing The US Open to Chambers Bay and Erin Hills. Albeit with flaws the courses brought a fresh look and also new challenges to the players. I would like the powers that be at the PGA do the same with their major.

[Mike_Trenham]

PGA West.

[Mike_Young]

IMHO most courses that would set up well for a PGA Championship are courses that I would not care to play.  TPC Sawgrass and Atlanta Athletic club are the only two I know of that can be set up to really do what they want out of a PGA...plus airports/hotels etc work...Exception would be Quail Hollow....

[Jason Topp]

Here is a slate of candidates:



PGA West
Desert Forest or Southern Dunes
Southern Hills
Dallas National
Calusa Pines
Seminole
Kiawah
Pinehurst No. 2

[Michael Wolf]

Wasn't Kiawah the gold standard for miserable logistics/infrastructure?

[Frank Sekulic]

While I have no idea how the membership at each of the courses would feel, The Honors Course in Tennessee or Kinloch outside of Richmond would be good choices

[Jim Nugent]

Streamsong could let the PGA hold the tournament on 2 courses, similar to what the US Am often does during medal play qualifying.  Might give the event a more unique character compared to the other majors.   

[Anthony_Nysse]

Streamsong could let the PGA hold the tournament on 2 courses, similar to what the US Am often does during medal play qualifying.  Might give the event a more unique character compared to the other majors.   

My concern would be logistics. Where are 10s of 1000 of fans and volunteers going to stay within a fair distance of Streamsong? Also, getting cooperate tents and stands on the property would more difficult than most venues because of topography and sandy soils.

[Anthony_Nysse]

  I think that TPC Sawgrass would be fun in a real, Major setting. It's been proven for  May weather, but sadly, the Tour would never give up their flagship course for the PGA.


  I'm not sure the all the grasses in the ATL is awake enough in May to have a major. (especially the rough) Certainly not warm enough at the Honors to have any defined rough and corporate set up would be tough.


  Eagle Point in Wilmington proved to be a very good host last year and that membership would probably give up their course for a PGA. Probably played on overseed.


Southern Hills, Oak Tree, Colonial would have to protect their rough all winter long to have enough for a May event. Not sure how many members would want to tolerate that. The average high and low temperatures barely reach 150 for most of the month, which is needed to grow bermudagrass.

[Joe Hellrung]

Cherokee in Atlanta has the space and the layout suitable for a PGA.  Would have to make some changes to add some distance, but the greens are suitable and the layout would easily host the fans.  Also located right off 400.  I doubt the membership would ever be interested though.

Shoal Creek is hosting the US Women's Open next May, and has a desire for more major events in the future. They would be the sensible option in the space between Atlanta and Texas, north of Orlando and south of (cough) Valhalla.


I'd think Champions and Colonial would be at the top of the list of Texas clubs. Especially if PGA follows their pattern of chasing $ earning potential over GCA. I'd personally like to see them take a chance on an Austin Country Club or Bluejack


Streamsong seems like it would depend on infrastructure - where would they park cars and get people out to the course to key vantage points? Trudging through hundreds of yards of sand and phosphate in May seems like a pretty taxing walk for a lot of potential patrons. Although it's proximity to MCO is certainly a draw. Would they be able to get 2k+ volunteers to help at a for-profit facility?


No chance for Fallen Oak. It's pretty remote, attached to a casino, not a good enough golf course to make the risk worth taking. Same question on attendance and volunteers.


If Peachtree and East Lake are not options for Atlanta (and they aren't), then I'd rather the PGA forget Atlanta and look somewhere along the coast EXCEPT Kiawah. Why not a Succession, Long Cove, or dare to dream, Yeomann's Hall?


Michael Wolf

[Conley Hurst]

  I think that TPC Sawgrass would be fun in a real, Major setting. It's been proven for  May weather, but sadly, the Tour would never give up their flagship course for the PGA.


  I'm not sure the all the grasses in the ATL is awake enough in May to have a major. (especially the rough) Certainly not warm enough at the Honors to have any defined rough and corporate set up would be tough.


  Eagle Point in Wilmington proved to be a very good host last year and that membership would probably give up their course for a PGA. Probably played on overseed.


Southern Hills, Oak Tree, Colonial would have to protect their rough all winter long to have enough for a May event. Not sure how many members would want to tolerate that. The average high and low temperatures barely reach 150 for most of the month, which is needed to grow bermudagrass.

This is exactly my concern with all the talk about the move to May being a positive thing for Southern venues. For much of the South, even late May is too early for bermuda rough to properly grow in. From my experience, only the deep deep South and the coastal South would be ready.

[Jonathan Decker]

Some of the responses and comments on this thread display this group's affinity for architecture but lack of understanding how major championship venues are selected.

Corporate sponsorship dollars, media presence, venue reputation and market size trump course architecture all day long.  Operational logistics seems to fall about fourth on the list while player and spectator experience are even less of a factor. 

There are some exceptions to this as the WGA fares way better when conducting the BMW Championship outside of Chicago.  For whatever reason Chicagoland struggles to support that event, even in an affluent area such as Conway Farms.

A few of the courses mentioned above are so far from anything the PGA or USGA would want it motivated me to post this.