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W.H. Cosgrove

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Re:Is Surface Drainage a Lost Art?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2003, 03:16:30 PM »
This past August, I was struck by a small feature on a MN Ross course.  

The problem: The hole is an uphill par 5 with an extremely severe back to front green.  The only shot that will really work is to run a shot up the hill onto the putting surface.  High spinning shots just rocket back off of the front of the green.  By the design, any water placed on the green either mechanically or naturally runs off the front.  Which would normally create a surface too soft to allow the required shot.

The Solution: Ross(or his builder) placed a small roll in front of the green.  A miniature ditch really that draws the runoff from the green away from the approach.  Even though the approach is steep enough to drain naturally, a dry firm area was created that is almost unnoticeable allowing the shot to bump up the hill to the green.  

I can't help but think that the modern solution would have been the installation of a french or curtain drain just at the front of the green.  A solution that would have worked very well.  In time it may fail and require repair.  Ross's little swale has been there 80 years.  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2003, 03:20:02 PM by Cos »

GregRamsay

Re:Is Surface Drainage a Lost Art?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2003, 08:32:53 PM »
(Tom Doak from Tasmania)

Wayne,

I'm a huge believer in surface drainage.  On many of our courses there are no inlets at all.  On average, I'd guess there are about two places where we should have put one, to stop so much sheet drainage from going across a particular point in the fairway.

(An example ... Stonewall Two, which has no drains at all ... too much water comes back down the middle of the seventh fairway from the front of the green.  We should have put a drain just past the landing area there.)

Pete Dye always said 95% of golf design is making drainage look good.  He's fallen into the catch basin trap himself now, but I'm sticking with the old way for as long as I can.

BTW, the project manager at Cape Kidnappers wanted to put in a bunch of catch basins in the fairways on that site.  It would have looked awful.  I told him we ought to be able to figure out how to get it to surface drain, considering that we had 500 feet of fall to work with!

wsmorrison

Re:Is Surface Drainage a Lost Art?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2003, 09:12:45 PM »
Tom Doak,

Glad to see that the art is still being practiced.  Hope things are going well down under.  Springtime is upon you, and I imagine it is wonderful down there (although away from home).  Any chance to see some recent photos from CK?

FYI:  Cubs lead the series 3 games to 2 and the Yankees lead Boston 2 games to 1 and are playing now.  Rooting for a Cubs/Sox series!

I am going over to see Stonewall II in a few weeks and will keep my eye on how you solved the problem.  I think surface/sheet drainage is a challenge and another way that today's architects and builders can express their talents where it is possible.  

I think this is a most informative thread and I appreciate all those that contribute.  It really helps to hear from those of you in the business.  It also helps to hear from those with a trained eye .  I know for one, I am now visiting courses and considering this subject with careful observation.