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Thomas Dai

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What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« on: November 04, 2017, 01:51:45 PM »
What are the best types of tree to have on a course?


Now normally I’d be one of the first to the keyboard to say “none” or make some negative comment or other about there existence on a course.


However, it’s pretty difficult not to have some trees somewhere on or around the majority of courses so taking into consideration climate and ground conditions etc etc what are the best, or perhaps I should say ‘most suitable’ types of tree to have on a course?


What sort do least damage to drains, steal least water etc from the grass, drop the least leaves, cause least shade etc etc.


Thoughts?


Atb

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 02:05:19 PM »
Thomas - Birch and Pine are the best UK combo for me. The ones to avoid for seaching out the drains are Poplars, ok to treat as nurse crop but get rid of them when better ones are behind them or matured. Field Maple are nice, I quite like scrubbier low growers like Hawthorn, it's hard to fault Oak as well they don't cause much of a leaf problem until quite late.


Great for the environment and you can plant 1000 trees at 2.0M centres in just 1 acre, so in some unused pockets or to provide a better long term view block planting can make sense.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2017, 03:34:35 PM »

I am pretty much of the same opinion as Adrian in that birch, pine, hawthorn are nice to have. Of course oak, beech, maple are also good especially as lone specimen trees but need a long time to reach such a stage. I also like the smaller trees and bushes such as yew, juniper or coppiced copper beech. In the end though anything that is native is okay.


Jon

Tom_Doak

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 04:12:54 PM »
In my younger years, I'd have said Monterey cypress, because that would mean you were somewhere around Monterey.  But it looks like a lot of those are dying back now, along with several other species.


In yesteryear, the American elm was the perfect golf tree.  Its high arching habit meant you could play shots underneath the limbs, unlike most other deciduous trees which branch out much lower to the ground.


Generally, the best types of tree to have on any course are the ones found naturally on that property.

BCowan

Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 04:18:34 PM »
In my younger years, I'd have said Monterey cypress, because that would mean you were somewhere around Monterey.  But it looks like a lot of those are dying back now, along with several other species.


In yesteryear, the American elm was the perfect golf tree.  Its high arching habit meant you could play shots underneath the limbs, unlike most other deciduous trees which branch out much lower to the ground.


Generally, the best types of tree to have on any course are the ones found naturally on that property.


I'm told there are Elms now that are resistant to thee Dutch

Tom_Doak

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 04:49:25 PM »

I'm told there are Elms now that are resistant to thee Dutch


Supposedly, yes.  Most professionals in landscape architecture advocate planting a couple of them to see how they do, but are still skeptical that they can be reintroduced en masse without problems.

Jim Hoak

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 09:47:43 PM »
I agree with virtually everything Tom Doak says, but one small correction--the Monterey Cypress are not dying off, at least on all Monterey courses.  In fact they are thriving.  The Pines around Monterey are dying, but that decline seems to have leveled off.
Interesting fact--the  Monterey Cypress only live within about 50 miles of Monterey, CA.  There are other varieties of Cypress trees that grow elsewhere.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:54:06 PM by Jim Hoak »


Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »

Bill,


I love them too, but had a super remove a beauty specimen as trash, against my will, so I guess not all agree.


Reminds me of a few war stories, a few of which I probably told way back in time for those with long memories, but.....


Back in my Killian and Nugent days we had a summer intern, who was talented but didn't play golf.  Decided to take him to a client meeting on a tree planting plan just for experience.  Told him to be quiet, but noooooo.  At some point, he decided to comment that pines would be good, because the low branches would cause lost golf balls and make the course tougher.  This was a high play public course who wanted just the opposite, of course. 


Believe it or not, that wasn't even his biggest gaffe.  I knew that the super's son had just committed suicide, and recall debating whether to mention it to the intern, figuring the chances of the subject coming up were about nil, and that he would be self conscious about it.  However, while I hadn't seen it yet, the movie "ordinary people" had just been released, (where a Chicago North Shore "perfect couple" had a teen son commit suicide, so naturally the intern picked that topic to discuss at lunch.


Back on topic, high branched trees are a plus, for some filtered sunlight hitting the ground, for golfers finding their shots more easily, and for guys on riding mowers to be able to cruise under trees without getting knocked off their (then) tractors.  Don't ask how I know the latter. ???


The best tree would vary by region, and in the north would almost always be deciduous, but here in the south we have some evergreen leafy (vs. needle) trees that work fine.


I recall a well-known saying that (ANGC aside) a golf course doesn't need to be an arboretum.  As TD says, native or at least well adapted trees are best. You really want low maintenance trees at most places.  You also want strong trees, and avoid weaker species like Cottonwood, Poplar, even Birch (here) that tend to break branches easily.  In general, the faster growin gthe tree, the more brittle it is. 


Cottonwoods also have a very heavy leaf to rake up, and the white cotton puffs can obscure golf balls every fall. 


In most of the US, a combo of redbud in front of pine looks great, at least a few months a year.  In the south, a good crape myrtle (some older varieties are very bug infested, so be careful) make for all year round flowering and are pretty low maintenance, if you want a medium size tree in an out of play areas.  Various hollies make the same purpose.  Larger trees are oak, cedar elm, etc.


Lastly, I actually did a time and motion study (or saw one a super did) that planting in clusters (5, 10 or 15 feet apart, to mow between with 1-3 passes of a bank mower, while leaving larger open areas, is actually just as fast to mow as leaving trees further apart, evenly spaced in lines to allow larger mowers to access between.  Clustering trees up always looks better and gives that parkland feel.  LA theory usually suggests an odd number of trees, made up of smaller trees in front on the normal view line, and larger trees behind, and planting on a gentle mound gives them a bit of a head start.


I also worked on summer for a company that transplanted large trees for instant effect.  Turns out, within five years or so, the smaller trees catch up, at a lot less cost, and generally lower mortality rate, providing you aren't so impatient as to need to see the final result right now.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Rich Goodale

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 09:25:18 AM »
To me, the ideal trees in a non-links environment (in which there should be NO trees) should be beautiful ones, if and only if they are mostly outside of the playing corridors.


I played Myopia recently, and they have improved the golfing experience massively over the past 5 years, by expanding the playing corridors and opening up great vistas across the course.


Trees are weeds that detract from the playing of the game of golf.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 02:41:48 PM »
Depends on the type of course.


Links - None!


Heathland - Scots Pines are beautiful. Silver Birch are nasty weeds which make life very difficult for heather and fine grasses.


Parkland - Oak, Beech, Ash or Plane in small isolated groups.  Never lining fairways in serried ranks.

Ted Sturges

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 09:51:44 AM »
Stumps

Jon Wiggett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 12:05:10 PM »
Duncan,

birches are as good a tree as you can get on a golf course. Upright growth tendencies, easy to shape, do not create a shadow problem and great firewood. You do need to keep on top of them as they spread very quickly but certainly an attractive tree to look at and native.

Ted,

stumps are a nightmare when in the deep rough  :-X

Jon

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 03:15:32 PM »


birches are as good a tree as you can get on a golf course. Upright growth tendencies, easy to shape, do not create a shadow problem and great firewood. You do need to keep on top of them as they spread very quickly but certainly an attractive tree to look at and native.



Nah.


Horrible weed trees.




A.G._Crockett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 04:33:09 PM »
I'll take maples.  They typically don't get extremely tall, they are usually pleasantly shaped with great balance, and there is nothing more spectacular in the fall.  Also, it may be the only tree that share it's name with notable golf course architects.  (Ellis and his son Dan)

My favorite tree by far is the beech, but supers often don't like them because they can be huge.  But they are asymmetrically beautiful in a unique way.

Pines are a bit more complex.  The longleaf pine is a beautiful, majestic tree capable of living for well over 100 years.  Most of the Southeastern US was once covered by the longleaf; now most of that wood is part of houses like Craftsman bungalows.  But the ones that are left are remarkable.  Other pines, however, can be not much more than a nuisance on a golf course.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Joe Hancock

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 05:15:23 PM »
Also, it may be the only tree that share it's name with notable golf course architects.  (Ellis and his son Dan)


I’ve played some of the Maples’ work, and thought it was just Oak-A......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

A.G._Crockett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 08:51:07 PM »
Also, it may be the only tree that share it's name with notable golf course architects.  (Ellis and his son Dan)


I’ve played some of the Maples’ work, and thought it was just Oak-A......

Well played, Mr. Hancock, well played.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Brian Finn

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 09:00:22 AM »
Stumps
Darn...lost that bet.  I took the under on reply # 10.   ;D
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

BHoover

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 09:12:16 AM »
Stumps
Darn...lost that bet.  I took the under on reply # 10.   ;D


It’s very irresponsible to leave stumps on the course. Those things still compete with the sward for nutrients. Stumps and sward do not mix.

Ian Andrew

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 07:04:39 PM »
White and Red Oak ... tap root means you do get turf underneath.


Happen to love Tulip Trees too - but need to have right place for them (one across road from house is 130')
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

A.G._Crockett

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 07:16:43 PM »
White and Red Oak ... tap root means you do get turf underneath.


Happen to love Tulip Trees too - but need to have right place for them (one across road from house is 130')

I'd add that you CAN root prune most oaks, though few courses do.  This, too, helps with turf growth.

I don't share your love of the tulip poplar, though there are worse things than that around.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Martin Lehmann

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Re: What are the best types of tree to have on a golf course?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 04:56:11 AM »
Our agronomist always says that his favorite trees on the course are the ones that lie horizontally.


In our part of the world (Northwestern Europe) I like pine and oak on golf courses. Beech is nice too, but its dense foliage creates a tremendous amount of shade. So you don't want to have them close to tee and green areas. We try to eliminate birch as much as possible since it's considered 'weed of the forest'. The same is done with spruce, but that's mainly because they are not the prettiest of trees and cause shade too.

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