Apache Stronghold next Sat 11/11/2017

[Bart Bradley]

Anyone interested in Apache Stronghold next Saturday, November 11?


I am going to be Pheonix and have the day free.  There are lots of tee times available on the website in the mid to late morning.  I will book something by tomorrow but wondered if anyone would like to join up.  Looks like it will be $60 for the tee time.


Respond here or send me a message: bart@bradleygolftravel.com


Bart

[Tom_Doak]

Please report back on your trip ... I spoke to a new superintendent there sometime last year, but I haven't heard anything about the place since then. 


I heard a rumor they have switched the nines, which would make for a tough starting sequence.

[Ross Harmon]

I heard a rumor they have switched the nines, which would make for a tough starting sequence.

My only trip there was two years ago, I believe the nines were switched at that time. The 2nd hole was a par 3 as the 10th was a par 5 - that's "switched" from the original, right?

[Tom_Doak]

My only trip there was two years ago, I believe the nines were switched at that time. The 2nd hole was a par 3 as the 10th was a par 5 - that's "switched" from the original, right?

Correct.  The original first hole was the par-5 up the hill, next to the practice range.  The 18th finished out in a small canyon by itself, closer to the highway.  The transition from 9 to 10 was very short; now, it would be a bit of a hike, if anyone ever walked and played.  [We did have walking trails when the course opened.]

[Andy Stamm]

I played there a bit less than a year ago. They have switched the 9s but were quite happy to let me play the original routing. With very few people out there, it's quite relaxed. I enjoyed seeing the course, and you can certainly see and appreciate what's there and enjoy certain parts. But, I'd only recommend it for that purpose. Certain parts of the course (including a few greens) were in such disrepair it would have difficult to enjoy a game of golf there that was more about the playing than about the seeing. It's a shame too, because most of the course was in perfectly acceptable nick. There were just a few places that were very bad.


There was an online rate of something like $25. I decided to pay at the course directly in case a 3rd party would have taken a cut of that. But at the course directly the rate was double that. I can't say it's good value for $50 or $60 or whatever it was. Nobody would pay that other than to see the course because of its potential, which would explain why there are virtually no golfers out there.


But because I was driving that way anyway, it was well worth a stop and is a lovely place and golf course. I hope that a few of those issues have been worked out. Even with a very minimal approach to maintenance it would be a nice place to play and much better than the standard desert fare.


I thought it was a challenging but fine walk. There were a few spots that were unkind to the golfer in the sense that the walk was made much tougher to gain more dramatics. I think it was the 18th tee that had a significant hike to the very elevated tee. That seemed a bit contrived to me and I think there were other tees in a much more natural position behind the previous green and at that level. But that's small potatoes. It was a fine walk and quite enjoyable in the beautiful weather I had on the day.

[Bart Bradley]

Please report back on your trip ... I spoke to a new superintendent there sometime last year, but I haven't heard anything about the place since then. 


I heard a rumor they have switched the nines, which would make for a tough starting sequence.

Tom:


It was a beautiful perfect weather day on a Saturday at Apache.  Unfortunately, play was almost zero.  I went out at 930 and was first off.  I was followed by two local foursomes and there might have been one or two other small groups on the course when I finsihed.


Yes, they switched the nines and the new first hole is a real bear from either of the back 2 tees.


I thought the design of the course was excellent with lots of variety and potentially great green complexes.  The course had width and utilized some natural "washes" quite nicely. 


I went with low expectations about course conditions but was disappointed to find that it was in horrible shape.  Lots of areas of mud and large ruts in the fairways and lots of bare areas too.  My ball was covered in dirt and mud after almost every tee shot.  About 4 or 5 of the greens had nearly full grass coverage but many of the others had bare spots or even ruts in the greens.  Around the hole locations, the ball rolled well and I was able to make a few putts of medium length when my angle allowed me to putt over the part of the greens that didn't have the huge maintenance issues.  The bunkers were largely poorly maintained and in a few, black plastic drainage pipes were protruding above the "sand".  Many had been unraked since the last rain (whenever that was...no rain in at least several days before my visit). 


The whole experience made me quite sad.  I took a number of pictures to show the conditioning issues but frankly don't wish to harm the place further.  It was clearly the highest ratio of course design/course condition I have ever played (7/1.5).  The two employees were friendly and kind (especially the outside worker).  I would guess that the word about the condition has gotten out and that has substantially impacted the number of playing customers (which in turn has decreased revenues and therefore, decreased maintenance expeditures).


I am glad I made the trip to see the course but would not return unless I heard from trusted sources that place had turned the corner in its maintenance. 


Bart

[Mark Smolens]

That could be the saddest post I have ever seen on this Board...