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Ryan Taylor

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Streamsong Blue + Red Composite Course
« on: December 31, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »
After participating in the SS best course thread, I wonder how a Blue + Red composite course would be received and ranked?? The most natural and best way to connect would be Blue #1 - #6 and Red #7 - #18. The composite course  would feature the best stretch of each course ~ Blue #2 - #6 and Red #7 - #11. I'm going to certainly try and set up an afternoon round utilizing this routing next visit.

How would you rank the Blue, Red and Purple (Composite) courses utilizing the GW scale and/or Doak scale?

Background: GW 2017 Top 100 Modern ranking has the Red at #35 and the Blue at #55. Mr. Doak has both courses ranked as 8's in CG Vol. 2.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 10:29:36 AM by Ryan Taylor »
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong Purple (Blue + Red Composite Course)
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 03:51:09 PM »
 8)  Sorry GW, hard to believe there's such a gap between Red & Blue courses...


I think you could have a better composite 18 holes, call it chartreuse, using a cart... ::)
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong Purple (Blue + Red Composite Course)
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 03:59:10 PM »
8)  Sorry GW, hard to believe there's such a gap between Red & Blue courses...



With Doak attending the latest Golfweek Rater retreat at Streamsong I'm sure the gap will be narrowed. You know he is quite charming in person.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Streamsong Purple (Blue + Red Composite Course)
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 05:07:20 PM »
8)  Sorry GW, hard to believe there's such a gap between Red & Blue courses...

With Doak attending the latest Golfweek Rater retreat at Streamsong I'm sure the gap will be narrowed. You know he is quite charming in person.


It's also possible they'll decide that the original criticism of the severe greens on the Blue were overblown.


But, really, the gap between Red and Blue has always been smaller than it's made to be.  They only started a few places apart in the rankings ... which is indicative of a very small gap, probably a 60/40 split among the raters as to which is best.  But because they are always compared head to head, and people are told that the Red is rated higher, the gap winds up growing as people who have them pretty even go with the consensus.


You could say exactly the same about Barnbougle and Lost Farm, actually, but not as many people pay attention to that competition over here ... which is why I'm working more in Australia right now than in America.



Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong Purple (Blue + Red Composite Course)
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 10:22:27 AM »
Tom,
You of all people know you can't please everyone!  You may or may not remember but at the opening of Stonewall North, we were sitting at the bar and we were talking about new courses and renovations/restorations,... and you said to me, "If I can please 70% of the membership, I have done really well!" I have used that quote for the last 15 years when working with clubs.  It is a pretty accurate percentage  :)


You know you are known for building wild greens and not everyone is going to enjoy that especially when green speeds keep getting faster and faster with the new strains of grasses and maintenance practices.  Not everyone putts like Ben Crenshaw and if golfers can't get the ball in the hole it will distract them and it can impact their whole perspective of a golf course.  I mentioned on another thread that when I played the Red and the Blue with a good friend, he really struggled with the greens on the Blue and it impacted his perception of the golf course.  I thought many on the Blue were severe but they were manageable and I enjoyed them.  I thought the same when I played Stone Eagle.  Apparently much of the membership there thinks the greens are over the top.  I didn't find them to be that way (although if you don't have control of your golf ball and end up in the wrong spots on some of those greens you are almost in a hazard).  But that is fine and you deal with it.  I thought there was a good balance of those that were severe vs ones that were more modestly contoured. 


As I alluded to in the other Streamsong thread, the Blue and the Red are very similar in many ways.  Maybe it is the greens that most golfers remember that causes them to side with one over the other? 


     

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong Blue + Red Composite Course
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 10:29:08 AM »
An 8 for each course feels about right. A composite course with Blue #1 - #6 and Red #7 - #18 would be closer to a 9 for me. GW Modern rankings for both courses feels low.

I used Tom's scoring method for ranking composite course holes. My rankings for Blue are slightly different. Do you agree with my assessment? Is the composite course a 9?

SS Composite Course
#1 Blue
#2 Blue ! (Underrated hole)
#3 Blue !
#4 Blue !
#5 Blue !
#6 Blue !!
#7 Red !!
#8 Red
#9 Red !!
#10 Red !
#11 Red !
#12 Red
#13 Red
#14 Red !
#15 Red !
#16 Red !!
#17 Red
#18 Red !
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."