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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2017, 10:08:04 AM »
Don't we all wish that every time an architect looks at a site it eventually becomes the finest course ever built? That would be awesome!!!

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2017, 10:13:00 AM »
John,


If more people put as much time, energy and passion into a site  as this young man has done they may as well be the finest courses ever built.

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2017, 11:02:09 AM »
I am with Ryan H on this one!


The silent majority are hoping you realize your dream.


Next August when I visit the Salt Lake area If time allows I wouldn't mind stopping in to take a look.


Good Luck.


Zac,


If you are really going for the Crump model of inclusion, you would be wise to jump on this offer. In fact, I would be inclined to come up just to be a fly on the wall. Mr. Urbina is one of the greats in golf course architecture today.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2017, 11:46:41 AM »
I am with Ryan H on this one!


The silent majority are hoping you realize your dream.


Next August when I visit the Salt Lake area If time allows I wouldn't mind stopping in to take a look.


Good Luck.


Zac,


If you are really going for the Crump model of inclusion, you would be wise to jump on this offer. In fact, I would be inclined to come up just to be a fly on the wall. Mr. Urbina is one of the greats in golf course architecture today.


And if you guys needs a driver/bag man... have wheels, just recently renewed my utah DL, and know how to get there!  ;D

Carson Pilcher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2017, 12:03:07 PM »
I will not be in the silent majority any longer.  I hope this is a HUGE success.  You are doing what (I believe) everyone on this site would do for themselves if given the opportunity.  Anyone that is negative can choose to never visit the course.  Make note of who they are.


Your starting points for templates and your influences of CB and Raynor will serve you well.  I know you will make sure it plays firm and fast.  With the clubhouse and cabins....less is more.  Provide the necessities (and do them well), and forget opulence.  Think Peachtree, Honors, PV and Merion (minus the new addition to the clubhouse).

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2017, 12:21:01 PM »
Don't we all wish that every time an architect looks at a site it eventually becomes the finest course ever built? That would be awesome!!!


John,


Zac has been ranked as high as #119 in the world rankings. I am doubtful that I am #119 at Yale Golf Course. There is just a chance that the kid is a hard worker.


#GoZacGo
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2017, 12:50:03 PM »
Zac is in danger of becoming the LaVar Ball of golf course architecture. Even a great product can be hampered by over hype, it's a twitter world that I have grown too old to understand.


I know what I am talking about having been a casualty of an over hyped course that while great always felt like a disappointment. I don't want to see this happen to an innocent young man just getting started in what promises to be an outstanding career.




John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2017, 12:58:45 PM »
I'll confess that I'm baffled by the need to take sides on this potential course development.  Maybe that automatically puts me in the "hater" category?

Does anyone seriously hope that the project fails?  I don't see why one would.  But what constitutes success or failure?

When you hubristically compare the Buck Club to the development of Pine Valley, NGLA, & Sand Hills - well, there is going to be some skepticism.  What are the chances that Zac Blair accomplishes something that Doak, Hanse, Coore, Devries, Dye, Macdonald, Maxwell, Tillinghast, Ross and so on were unable to do?  Did any of these guys deliver a world class course in their first design effort?  My thinking building a course is hard is a sign of respect towards all of the people who have built the best courses, and a message board comprised of golf course architecture enthusiasts ought to recognize the challenges. 

I hope that Mr. Blair is able to get the course built and that it turns out to be a fine course and a club constituted of the type of membership he wants.  To me, that would be a success.  If it turns out to be world class (initially or over time), great! 

If this outlook brands me as a "hater" and you follow Carson Pilcher's bizarre advice to make note of it, I will try to live with the consequences. 

Zac Blair

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2017, 01:46:57 PM »
I'll confess that I'm baffled by the need to take sides on this potential course development.  Maybe that automatically puts me in the "hater" category?

Does anyone seriously hope that the project fails?  I don't see why one would.  But what constitutes success or failure?

When you hubristically compare the Buck Club to the development of Pine Valley, NGLA, & Sand Hills - well, there is going to be some skepticism.  What are the chances that Zac Blair accomplishes something that Doak, Hanse, Coore, Devries, Dye, Macdonald, Maxwell, Tillinghast, Ross and so on were unable to do?  Did any of these guys deliver a world class course in their first design effort?  My thinking building a course is hard is a sign of respect towards all of the people who have built the best courses, and a message board comprised of golf course architecture enthusiasts ought to recognize the challenges. 

I hope that Mr. Blair is able to get the course built and that it turns out to be a fine course and a club constituted of the type of membership he wants.  To me, that would be a success.  If it turns out to be world class (initially or over time), great! 

If this outlook brands me as a "hater" and you follow Carson Pilcher's bizarre advice to make note of it, I will try to live with the consequences.




To be completely honest maybe your are right that comparing TBC to those other great courses will draw skepticism...




This quote tho... "[size=78%]What are the chances that Zac Blair accomplishes something that Doak, Hanse, Coore, Devries, Dye, Macdonald, Maxwell, Tillinghast, Ross and so on were unable to do?" ... [/size]I[size=78%] [/size]dint[size=78%] love it because there is always going to be someone to come after the greats... in everything. [/size]


One thing I know for sure is there is ALWAYS a chance that I can do it even if others did not.
Maybe I have been doing a poor job of explaining the goal of this entire project. But in all honesty how isn't it similar to PV or NGLA... Ive comprised a list of holes that I think are the best that have the right principles to make an enjoyable golf course in todays day and age.... Ive talked to many great architects, great players, and others who know a lot about golf and taken their opinions and advice.... Ive taken the best characteristics from the best clubs around the world and implemented them in my plan... and I'm brining in a team thats going to work their asses off to deliver (again what I think) will possibly be one of this generations classic courses.

I can promise you I've put in a lot more work on and offsite than some of the architects you've mentioned and more than people probably give me credit for... Ive been around the business my entire life and I understand I'm only in my twenties but people close to me understand I'm not just some "kid" trying to bootleg a golf course together and slap a name on it comparing it the greats... sometimes when you have a guy thats trying to make a special place (not for the monetary purpose) for the love of the game they turn out pretty good. Thats why I've specifically chosen to compare it to places like NGLA PV and Sand Hills. Those were all labors of love where people involved and even people on the outside looking in knew they were going to better the game with the principles and characteristics that were implemented in those models.








Zac Blair

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2017, 01:47:54 PM »
I am with Ryan H on this one!


The silent majority are hoping you realize your dream.


Next August when I visit the Salt Lake area If time allows I wouldn't mind stopping in to take a look.


Good Luck.


thanks for your support! we are always open to people coming to check and out and offer some insight. we would love to have you come check TBC out.

Zac Blair

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2017, 01:55:04 PM »
Zac is in danger of becoming the LaVar Ball of golf course architecture. Even a great product can be hampered by over hype, it's a twitter world that I have grown too old to understand.


I know what I am talking about having been a casualty of an over hyped course that while great always felt like a disappointment. I don't want to see this happen to an innocent young man just getting started in what promises to be an outstanding career.


This is hilarious... "The Lavar Ball of GCA" LOL
you must not fully comprehend what I am trying to do with this project.
Honestly I'm just trying to bring a world class golf course to my home state... I want to make an awesome golf course with an awesome vibe where guys that truly love golf can come out and have a great time...


thats what I've experienced at the great clubs I've traveled too.. there is always a chance someone can make another great club/course... where I feel most people don't get it right is they don't do it for the right reasons.. Im really doing this because I love it... not to get a paycheck or become rich... so if I'm the "Lavar ball of GCA" because I want to bring an amazing club/course to Utah... go ahead and call me that..


im totally ok with building one course my entire life.... thats the difference between and some others....

id love to have you out so you can see for yourself and hopefully I can change your opinion about not only Zac "Lavar ball of GCA" Blair but also of the buck club.
[/size]
[/size][size=78%] [/size]

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2017, 02:18:00 PM »
Zac, thank you for bringing this project to our attention. I hope you succeed famously! Three pieces of advice if I may:  1) get off this site and get to work - there's no more upside here. 3) use OPM - Other People's Money. 3) remember that a loan guarantor is nothing more than a fool with a pen in his hand.


Go get 'em!
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2017, 02:28:54 PM »
Where can I buy some merchandise? I'll be traveling extensively next month and would love to spread the word.

Ted Sirbaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2017, 03:36:16 PM »
Zac,


How much of the course do you plan on having where the current course is vs. the new land in those pictures?

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2017, 09:53:40 PM »
Zac, I've been an outside observer of you for many years - and not in a stalking way ha ha.  I've been a huge BYU fan my entire life and always thought I would attend school there.  However, I married my sweetheart 10 weeks after coming home from my mission and decided to attend Idaho State in my hometown as they offered me a full four year scholarship to stay home.  I was 21 and my wife was 19, so free college sounded pretty good!

Anyway, as a BYU fan I've always watched with a close eye the athletes that have advanced to the professional ranks.  In fact, I remember you coming to my home course (Highland in Pocatello, ID) while you were still in college and playing well in a couple of the big 2-man tournaments including a win five years ago.  For those that don't know much about Zac, let me just offer a couple of quick statements.


The Blair's are on the Mount Rushmore of Utah golf.  While some may scoff at Utah for their lack of "great golf" or simply because their only frame of reference to Utah is Mormons, Zac is no novice to the golf world.  His father, Jimmy, was an accomplished player in his own right as he won state opens in various states out west and played college golf at BYU where his teammates included Mike "Radar" Reid and now famed architect John Fought.  Jimmy went on to play professional golf and was recently enshrined in the Utah Golf Hall of Fame.  After his professional playing days Jimmy spent most of his time managing various courses in Utah where Zac had a front row seat to the operations, dedication, and common pitfalls operating a course has.


Some of the best athletes, businessmen, and tradesmen are those that have been mentored in their craft by a parent (no, LaVar Ball isn't about to get mentioned again in this thread here).  I'm not saying that Zac and The Buck Club will be a surefire success story, but I love the approach he is taking.  Being a golf architecture nerd myself and coming from a family that donated the property for a golf course to be built in my home town years ago, it has been a ton of fun seeing his interest in architecture grow so strong over the past few years.  In my opinion, his access to knowledgeable people, downtime on the road that allows for extra study, and deep passion for architecture and this project are a formula for success.  When my family donated the property for the a golf course to be built it wasn't financially driven; it was because of our passion for the game and our community which is exactly what I see in Zac.


While places like Utah, Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming are easy punchlines at the end of pompous jokes of golf's "elite," there are still some great people that are plenty passionate about golf that live in these areas.  I've been extremely fortunate in my relatively young life to have played some spectacular golf courses.  The more I've traveled, the more I've longed for there a be a course in the Rockies that paid homage to the great golden era of architecture.  In the states I mentioned earlier, there isn't a single course designed by Donald Ross, Alister MacKenzie, Seth Raynor, C.B. MacDonald, A.W. Tillinghast, Colt & Allison, Walter Travis, Stanley Thompson, or other such legends.  Even modern day architects like Tom Doak, Coore and Crenshaw, Gil Hanse, and David McLay Kidd have just brushed the area (Rock Creek Cattle Co. and Huntsman Springs).  Utah doesn't have a single course designed by a golden era legend and nothing from Doak, C&C, Kidd, or Hanse in the modern day.


So begs the question, "What is a guy to do?"  Sure it would be great to be part of the nearly 40% U.S. population that lives in a county bordered by a shoreline where many great golf clubs exist; but what if you have a passion to live in Utah, Idaho, or some other land locked state devoid of a storied golf pedigree?  Well, if you have passion, drive, and a serious pair of stones, you create your own dream - and Zac's is The Buck Club.  I wish nothing but great things for The Buck Club as it transitions from dream to reality and hope it will materialize to the kind of golf course this region deserves an opportunity to appreciate.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 12:49:55 AM by Bill Satterfield »

Emile Bonfiglio

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2017, 11:46:54 AM »
^^^ Amen to the above!


I lived in Utah while attending Utah State University and can attest that the state was then and is still very underserved in terms of great golf (So. Utah does not count).


Lets assume the The Buck Club comes in at even quality with Old Mac @ Bandon. Even without the token ocean view at #7, that course at the proposed location, would still be top 20 in the US public course.  I know Zac is not doing this for rankings, he's doing this for passion and a love of great golf. That reminds me of a guy about 25+ years ago who had a nice little course in New Buffalo and wanted to build something special.... and that worked out ok.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2017, 08:32:55 PM »
Lets assume the The Buck Club comes in at even quality with Old Mac @ Bandon. Even without the token ocean view at #7, that course at the proposed location, would still be top 20 in the US public course.


Will The Buck Club be public?  All the discussion so far has sounded private. (Founding members, looking for just a few guys that share the vision, comparisons to classic privates)  Am I misinterpreting?

Emile Bonfiglio

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2017, 10:05:11 PM »
Lets assume the The Buck Club comes in at even quality with Old Mac @ Bandon. Even without the token ocean view at #7, that course at the proposed location, would still be top 20 in the US public course.


Will The Buck Club be public?  All the discussion so far has sounded private. (Founding members, looking for just a few guys that share the vision, comparisons to classic privates)  Am I misinterpreting?


No it will be private. I was just using Old Mac as an example of a template course potential for success. 
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #93 on: October 25, 2017, 07:21:48 AM »
Just to be fair if any other developer or architect came on here and basically promised a world class course and world class experience, and said his new course would be like PV or NGLA....well I’ve seen responses that are pretty harsh when some have made claims a lot more tame....doesn’t make one a hater to challenge those sorts of claims.


But passion is good and Zac has that.  I just don’t think any of the modern greats were built with those sorts of goals.


If I was trying to build something “world class” the last thing I’d do is build a bunch of templates.  That sounds more like world class marketing.   World class to me means something unique, something I’d travel to see because I can’t find it anywhere else.  Seeing another version of the Redan doesn’t excite me in the least...but then that’s only me.


Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #94 on: October 25, 2017, 08:47:31 AM »
Good advice Don. It is important to be influenced by historic golf course architecture, but influence does not mean mimicking.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:56:15 AM by Tim Liddy »

bstark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2017, 03:38:45 PM »
 Having played with Zac and his Dad last summer I can tell you, imo, he possesses the passion and the intellectual curiosity to build a great course. He displayed a terrific understanding of the architecture and nuances that make a course great. I would love to see him succeed in his mission to bring quality golf to his home state.

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2017, 09:44:52 PM »
maybe I've read it all wrong, but has Zac compared it to Pine Valley etc?  It has always read to me that he is inspire by the formation and development of many of the great courses.  He is obviously inspired by the templates and courses of old, but I'm not seeing any arrogance of saying "we are building Pine Valley?


Many tour pros find paths, and set goals to pursue those paths.  Zac's comments and posts, sound to me like a guy setting a pretty big goal to pursue.


For the record, I don't know him. but have played with his dad a few times.  Pretty solid golf business background in that family!!

George Myers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2017, 04:35:59 PM »
Just to provide some more information...


There was a fried egg podcast in which Zac Blair and DJ Piehowski(?) were interviewed.


http://www.friedegg.co/podcasts/the-buck-club




John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2017, 04:46:09 PM »
Zac is on fire!!!! Go, go, go!!!!

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2017, 08:02:37 AM »
Zac,




Get Mike Cocking of OCCM (Ogilvy Clayton Cocking Mead) to do a beautiful water colour painting for the Buck Club layout.


http://golfrenderings.com.au/


It would make the course alive and a good marketing tool as well.


Or if you want Computer Generated Images - stills and flythroughs of TBC let me know as I have a contact




Cheers
Ben