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Scott Warren

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The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« on: October 12, 2017, 05:07:25 PM »



Remarkable how much a course can change without you really noticing.


Here's three shots of the 7th hole at Barnbougle Dunes taken in 2004 (Mollica), 2011 (Henderson) and 2017 (moi).


I also revisited pics from 2009 & 2014 and that seems to be where the bunkering look really began to change to the cleaner look that features today across the course.


I also wonder if the dune behind the green has grown or if it's just a trick of the similar but slightly different perspectives the pictures were taken from.


During the GCA event there in 2011, I recall Phil Hill describing the constant "shifting sands" of bunker management on the course so it's not surprising that the years bring noticeable change, but no less interesting to look back on.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:13:32 PM by Scott Warren »

James Bennett

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Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 05:24:25 PM »
Scott

it depends which tee you take the photo from.
The Mollica photo is from the back tee, from which you see the bay around Bridport.
From the more forward tee, the ground is lower and Bridport/the bay is hidden.

Interesting pictures though.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 08:06:00 PM »
James is right about the different locations of the photographer, but I wouldn't be surprised if the dune behind the green has grown higher in the past 15 years, also.  A lot of sand gets blown up off that beach by the prevailing wind from the west!


Bunkers like these are inevitably going to blow around and when you build them you just accept that the maintenance crew is going to have to roll with the punches.  That said, it's way more work than I imagined as I have been extensively involved with the same process at Pacific Dunes, and we've gone in there to change a few of the worst bunkers to tone down the sand movement a bit.  [It still moves a lot ... but rebuilding revetments every few years is not cheap or easy, either.]


I remember when Dan Proctor and Dave Axland were starting to build the bunkers at Sand Hills, Dick Youngscap was just laughing at them for being so finicky with the edges, because it would all be changed or gone entirely in a year or two.


Indeed, when we are restoring old courses, it's worth remembering that the pictures we use are a moment in time that may be impossible to maintain long-term ... kind of like Poa-free bentgrass greens :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 09:06:31 PM by Tom_Doak »

Joshua Pettit

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Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 12:42:17 AM »

Indeed, when we are restoring old courses, it's worth remembering that the pictures we use are a moment in time that may be impossible to maintain long-term ... kind of like Poa-free bentgrass greens :)
Tom,

Do you really believe it is impossible to tenably maintain Poa-free bentgrass greens?
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 05:34:42 PM »

Tom,

Do you really believe it is impossible to tenably maintain Poa-free bentgrass greens?


Not impossible in all locations, but I've sure seen a lot of courses in the Midwest that have redone their greens to get pure bentgrass only to have the Poa back in them ten years later.

Matthew Mollica

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Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 09:10:46 PM »
Really neat little photographic work Scott. A reminder that courses are constantly in a state of flux.
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 03:54:18 AM »
Past and present photo comparisons, always interesting.


A couple of questions -


a) Seems like after a hole/green is built in sand the level of vegetation surrounding it always seems to increase - why? Does sprinkler water or water vapour travel much further than we generally appreciate in the air and also underground?


b) How easy/difficult to maintain are jagged edge, 'natural' bunkers? - raking, strimming, collapsing etc


c) There's a tree at the rear of the green in the first and second photos. It doesn't seem to be there in the third photo. Removed or fell down or 'trick of the light'?


Seems to be a terrific hole. Out of interest, which direction does the prevailing wind blow? In all three photos the flags would seem to indicate it's from the left (quartering helping or quartering against?).


atb

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 04:03:02 AM »

Thomas,


irrigation spray is a major contributor to the thickening of surrounding vegetation. This is one of the leading contributors to the changes in how many of the GB&I links now play. Fairways have become narrower due to dedicated, 5plex fairway mowers. They have also become softer due to lower height of cut and over watering. The rough has become thicker due to excessive growth due to watering and the courses have become more defined due to all of the above.


Jon

Thomas Dai

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Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 04:09:55 AM »
Thanks Jon. I had my suspicions. "Loss/loss"* rather than "win/win"! :)
atb


* for lovers of the yee olde style game
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 06:49:05 AM by Thomas Dai »

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 05:41:49 AM »

Thomas,


irrigation spray is a major contributor to the thickening of surrounding vegetation. This is one of the leading contributors to the changes in how many of the GB&I links now play. Fairways have become narrower due to dedicated, 5plex fairway mowers. They have also become softer due to lower height of cut and over watering. The rough has become thicker due to excessive growth due to watering and the courses have become more defined due to all of the above.


Jon


Jon


If the aim is to have firmer fairways and less thick rough is it a given then that higher cuts and less water is the answer or are there other ways of doing it ?


Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 05:47:05 AM »

Bunkers like these are inevitably going to blow around and when you build them you just accept that the maintenance crew is going to have to roll with the punches.  That said, it's way more work than I imagined as I have been extensively involved with the same process at Pacific Dunes, and we've gone in there to change a few of the worst bunkers to tone down the sand movement a bit.  [It still moves a lot ... but rebuilding revetments every few years is not cheap or easy, either.]



Indeed, when we are restoring old courses, it's worth remembering that the pictures we use are a moment in time that may be impossible to maintain long-term ... kind of like Poa-free bentgrass greens :)


Tom


When you look at old aerials of old classic courses they tend to have a lot more sand with much larger bunkers than they have now. Do you think that perhaps modern architects who are inspired by the ODG's are maybe relearning lessons that they learned through experience ? I'm thinking specifically about design and maitenance of bunkers but I suppose there could be other aspects as well.


Niall

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 12:20:44 PM »
Niall:  I'm not sure if the old architects really learned those lessons or whether the greenkeepers fixed it for them after the fact.  All great courses are at least partly a product of good stewardship.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 12:38:50 PM »

 This is one of the leading contributors to the changes in how many of the GB&I links now play. Fairways have become narrower due to dedicated, 5plex fairway mowers. They have also become softer due to lower height of cut and over watering. The rough has become thicker due to excessive growth due to watering and the courses have become more defined due to all of the above.


Jon


Ick...


amazing how many will argue that "faster"(as in shorter) always creates  firmer


Bring back the bounce,lose the trickle....
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 12:42:43 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jon Wiggett

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Re: The evolution of Tom's Little Devil
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 01:48:39 PM »


Bring back the bounce,lose the trickle....


Great catchphrase Jeff :)