[jeffwarne]

If I were ever so lucky to take batting practice at Fenway Park I would take it at home plate. Why would I choose to play golf, a game I have enjoyed for 50 years, be any different?

Yes but if you took your extended family for BP at Fenway would you have them construct 4 more home plates somewhere between the pitchers mound and the warning track?


and if you took batting practice at Fenway, would you use a drop 10 aluminum bat?


Cause that's where we are


apples and oranges

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Not sure what game the dissenters to Jeff's topic are playing?  He has players working for him who can easily carry the ball comfortably over 300 yards!  And he is a superb player and among the best instructors in the world!
The technological improvements on the golf ball the past 15 years has disproportionately favored golf swings exceeding 115mph. Those who saw Cameron Champ hit a 400 yard drive into a slight breeze on the 14th at LACC in the Walker Cup, will soon be seeing more players with this capability.  There is a 17 year old who was fitted at Ping with an average clubhead speed of 129!  That is an average carry of 330yards!
On a different note, the real estate needed to contain wild high swing speed players is immense.  Only a tiny percentage of golf is being played on courses using over 300 acres.  The high cost of maintenance vs. what the player can or will pay, is an issue that threatens the game. 

[Thomas Dai]

The golf community spends loads of money on balls and clubs that make shots go further, then it spends more money on extending golf courses. Curious logic......unless you're in a position to make £$£$ from "hit's further" equipment or extending courses!
atb

[BCowan]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong?  Fans dig the long ball, see John Daly.  I don't know why people are against people making money.  People are also underestimating how much gym time guys are putting in.  I don't care if they hit it 270 or 330, the pre shot routines are unbearable in matching pro golf live.  It's slowed down like baseball did imo.  Jeff,  if u can show me that 7,000 plus yard courses are closing at a higher rate then the 6,800 yard Engineers of the US then I'd listen, but this the games going to end stuff is 3 by 5 note cards.  The courses I know that have gone under are the 6400 yard courses that build a clubhouse in 1999-2005

[jeffwarne]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong?  Fans dig the long ball, see John Daly.  I don't know why people are against people making money.  People are also underestimating how much gym time guys are putting in.  I don't care if they hit it 270 or 330, the pre shot routines are unbearable in matching pro golf live.  It's slowed down like baseball did imo.  Jeff,  if u can show me that 7,000 plus yard courses are closing at a higher rate then the 6,800 yard Engineers of the US then I'd listen, but this the games going to end stuff is 3 by 5 note cards.  The courses I know that have gone under are the 6400 yard courses that build a clubhouse in 1999-2005

Got it.
So the longer the course the better.
More real estate, longer to walk, more to maintain.
Very sustainable.


Agreed-everybody digs the long ball.
It's totally relative.
Seeing Rory McIlroy hit it 340 is absolutely not as impressive as watching Nicklaus hit it 300---because NO ONE ELSE was hitting it as far as Jack on tour.
Seeing Rory do it, followed by multiple others isn't.
Would baseball be more fun if stadiums were 50% bigger and 450 yard shots were long outs?


I'm not suggesting any one length is better than another, I'm merely suggesting an optional ball for a power player on a formerly power or shotmaking demanding course. The powerless and the powerful can continue to play whichever ball they choose.
Having different ball options allows everyone to exoerience the same course different ways.


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
4500 yard courses were common in the 1890's
6000 yard courses were common in the 1950's
7000 yard courses in the 80's 90's
8000 yard courses are actually shortish for todays pros-unless you enjoy wedgefests


yet last I checked, the amount of useable land was shrinking, not increasing.

[Thomas Dai]

.......last I checked, the amount of useable land was shrinking, not increasing.

Well said Jeff.
And the planets population is increasing as well with all the ramifications for land and water etc that that has.
Plus golf community people are whinging coz 18-holes now takes 4-5+ hrs whereas they recall it used to be 3-ish and other folks reckon the time it takes to play the game is one of the reasons less people are taking up the game or continuing to play it.
Funny old world.
Alb

[BCowan]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong?  Fans dig the long ball, see John Daly.  I don't know why people are against people making money.  People are also underestimating how much gym time guys are putting in.  I don't care if they hit it 270 or 330, the pre shot routines are unbearable in matching pro golf live.  It's slowed down like baseball did imo.  Jeff,  if u can show me that 7,000 plus yard courses are closing at a higher rate then the 6,800 yard Engineers of the US then I'd listen, but this the games going to end stuff is 3 by 5 note cards.  The courses I know that have gone under are the 6400 yard courses that build a clubhouse in 1999-2005

Got it.
So the longer the course the better.
More real estate, longer to walk, more to maintain.
Very sustainable.


Agreed-everybody digs the long ball.
It's totally relative.
Seeing Rory McIlroy hit it 340 is absolutely not as impressive as watching Nicklaus hit it 300---because NO ONE ELSE was hitting it as far as Jack on tour.
Seeing Rory do it, followed by multiple others isn't.
Would baseball be more fun if stadiums were 50% bigger and 450 yard shots were long outs?


I'm not suggesting any one length is better than another, I'm merely suggesting an optional ball for a power player on a formerly power or shotmaking demanding course. The powerless and the powerful can continue to play whichever ball they choose.
Having different ball options allows everyone to exoerience the same course different ways.


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
4500 yard courses were common in the 1890's
6000 yard courses were common in the 1950's
7000 yard courses in the 80's 90's
8000 yard courses are actually shortish for todays pros-unless you enjoy wedgefests


yet last I checked, the amount of useable land was shrinking, not increasing.

Wow, please point to where I said a longer course is better?  Not many top 10 touring pros are hitting it 340.  You also are forgetting Palmer driving the par 4 1st at cherry hills in 1960s I think. Weiskopf wasn't as long as Jack, please. Holing putts matters. 


Baseball got a huge boast when steroids were around to most.  Offense is exciting to casual fan, same as golf.  I keep destroying your points.  Shot making is best defended with great greens and FIRMNESS, which was missing at Erin.


There are different balls for sale now and u should be promoting them instead of raging on a central organization to do things to ur liking.


Courses in the 20s had greens stimp ing at 5, u do that these days and ur private public course would go under in 6 months.  You are saving more green space against development by extending tees.


There is so much usable land outside of the New York stock exchanges playground, u might wanna venture out and see.  These bogus modern liberal talking points basically advocating population control, fascism.  Lake Superior is over its average levels.  People left the rust belt, sell them water in cali.  More straws drinking out of same bowl.


This nonsense about pace of play is a joke can take u to a 5800 yard public course with 5.5hr rounds, how about Lou Duran complaints of past Buda 5hr rounds. Hilarious the hypocrisy is on here. I'll play my 6900 yard track in 3hrs anyday. 


Less People playing the game is another lie, ask most people on here that own courses not in Montana if their rounds are going up, yes.  When baby boomers pass it's going to be another correction due to population and not course yardage bs talking points

[James Brown]

Would be interesting and novel as a one time event, but golf fans are not gonna be interested beyond that.  It will feel like golf has gone back in time.  But we don't get Arnie and Jack and Ben back with it. 


Embrace the horror.  Distance is never going away for the pros.

Disagree.
Golf will die if the venues continue to expand-which they will if equipment remains unchecked.
NO ONE would notice in two weeks if EVERYBODY switched tomorrow.
Which I'm not advocating.......
Amateurs are short every time they hit an iron anyway, and VASTLY overestimate how far they hit their driver.So it would be business as usual for them ,and the classics could stop being butchered;)


To Ben and Tom's discussion...
Couldn't you have 4 sets of markers, and use three tee pads per hole.
i.e on some holes the forwards share a tee pad with the second tee back, on others the 2nd and 3rd set share a tee pad, on others the 3rd and 4th share a tee pad. combined with maybe 2-4 holes that have way back tee pads.
Sustainability and everybody gets a trophy all rolled into one.
Nothing drives me crazier than the attempt to proportionately space out 5 -6 tees on a hole.
Not every hole has to be "fair" or proprtionate" for all. It can evenout over 18 holes witha little tee marker mix and match placement0and provide far more variety.---rather than every par 4 being 460,420,380, 350,300--that you see on every modern course


OR alternate balls
or both

No way the pro game goes backwards on distance.  Best you can hope for is to freeze where we are.  Either way, what you advocating amounts to bifurcation.

[jeffwarne]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong?  Fans dig the long ball, see John Daly.  I don't know why people are against people making money.  People are also underestimating how much gym time guys are putting in.  I don't care if they hit it 270 or 330, the pre shot routines are unbearable in matching pro golf live.  It's slowed down like baseball did imo.  Jeff,  if u can show me that 7,000 plus yard courses are closing at a higher rate then the 6,800 yard Engineers of the US then I'd listen, but this the games going to end stuff is 3 by 5 note cards.  The courses I know that have gone under are the 6400 yard courses that build a clubhouse in 1999-2005

Got it.
So the longer the course the better.
More real estate, longer to walk, more to maintain.
Very sustainable.


Agreed-everybody digs the long ball.
It's totally relative.
Seeing Rory McIlroy hit it 340 is absolutely not as impressive as watching Nicklaus hit it 300---because NO ONE ELSE was hitting it as far as Jack on tour.
Seeing Rory do it, followed by multiple others isn't.
Would baseball be more fun if stadiums were 50% bigger and 450 yard shots were long outs?


I'm not suggesting any one length is better than another, I'm merely suggesting an optional ball for a power player on a formerly power or shotmaking demanding course. The powerless and the powerful can continue to play whichever ball they choose.
Having different ball options allows everyone to exoerience the same course different ways.


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
4500 yard courses were common in the 1890's
6000 yard courses were common in the 1950's
7000 yard courses in the 80's 90's
8000 yard courses are actually shortish for todays pros-unless you enjoy wedgefests


yet last I checked, the amount of useable land was shrinking, not increasing.

Wow, please point to where I said a longer course is better?  Not many top 10 touring pros are hitting it 340.  You also are forgetting Palmer driving the par 4 1st at cherry hills in 1960s I think. Weiskopf wasn't as long as Jack, please. Holing putts matters. 


Baseball got a huge boast when steroids were around to most.  Offense is exciting to casual fan, same as golf.  I keep destroying your points.  Shot making is best defended with great greens and FIRMNESS, which was missing at Erin.


There are different balls for sale now and u should be promoting them instead of raging on a central organization to do things to ur liking.


Courses in the 20s had greens stimp ing at 5, u do that these days and ur private public course would go under in 6 months.  You are saving more green space against development by extending tees.


There is so much usable land outside of the New York stock exchanges playground, u might wanna venture out and see.  These bogus modern liberal talking points basically advocating population control, fascism.  Lake Superior is over its average levels.  People left the rust belt, sell them water in cali.  More straws drinking out of same bowl.


This nonsense about pace of play is a joke can take u to a 5800 yard public course with 5.5hr rounds, how about Lou Duran complaints of past Buda 5hr rounds. Hilarious the hypocrisy is on here. I'll play my 6900 yard track in 3hrs anyday. 


Less People playing the game is another lie, ask most people on here that own courses not in Montana if their rounds are going up, yes.  When baby boomers pass it's going to be another correction due to population and not course yardage bs talking points

Great post. Made my day. Some real gems in there.
Screw sustainability-we got lots of land in Merica.
Make it BIG BIG BIG.


I have many times in the past advocated the USGA and R&A control equipment.
This thread is NOT about that, but rather voluntary use of restricted flight balls for shared use of tees and social rounds.
No one's taking away your super ball.

[BCowan]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong?  Fans dig the long ball, see John Daly.  I don't know why people are against people making money.  People are also underestimating how much gym time guys are putting in.  I don't care if they hit it 270 or 330, the pre shot routines are unbearable in matching pro golf live.  It's slowed down like baseball did imo.  Jeff,  if u can show me that 7,000 plus yard courses are closing at a higher rate then the 6,800 yard Engineers of the US then I'd listen, but this the games going to end stuff is 3 by 5 note cards.  The courses I know that have gone under are the 6400 yard courses that build a clubhouse in 1999-2005

Got it.
So the longer the course the better.
More real estate, longer to walk, more to maintain.
Very sustainable.


Agreed-everybody digs the long ball.
It's totally relative.
Seeing Rory McIlroy hit it 340 is absolutely not as impressive as watching Nicklaus hit it 300---because NO ONE ELSE was hitting it as far as Jack on tour.
Seeing Rory do it, followed by multiple others isn't.
Would baseball be more fun if stadiums were 50% bigger and 450 yard shots were long outs?


I'm not suggesting any one length is better than another, I'm merely suggesting an optional ball for a power player on a formerly power or shotmaking demanding course. The powerless and the powerful can continue to play whichever ball they choose.
Having different ball options allows everyone to exoerience the same course different ways.


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
4500 yard courses were common in the 1890's
6000 yard courses were common in the 1950's
7000 yard courses in the 80's 90's
8000 yard courses are actually shortish for todays pros-unless you enjoy wedgefests


yet last I checked, the amount of useable land was shrinking, not increasing.

Wow, please point to where I said a longer course is better?  Not many top 10 touring pros are hitting it 340.  You also are forgetting Palmer driving the par 4 1st at cherry hills in 1960s I think. Weiskopf wasn't as long as Jack, please. Holing putts matters. 


Baseball got a huge boast when steroids were around to most.  Offense is exciting to casual fan, same as golf.  I keep destroying your points.  Shot making is best defended with great greens and FIRMNESS, which was missing at Erin.


There are different balls for sale now and u should be promoting them instead of raging on a central organization to do things to ur liking.


Courses in the 20s had greens stimp ing at 5, u do that these days and ur private public course would go under in 6 months.  You are saving more green space against development by extending tees.


There is so much usable land outside of the New York stock exchanges playground, u might wanna venture out and see.  These bogus modern liberal talking points basically advocating population control, fascism.  Lake Superior is over its average levels.  People left the rust belt, sell them water in cali.  More straws drinking out of same bowl.


This nonsense about pace of play is a joke can take u to a 5800 yard public course with 5.5hr rounds, how about Lou Duran complaints of past Buda 5hr rounds. Hilarious the hypocrisy is on here. I'll play my 6900 yard track in 3hrs anyday. 


Less People playing the game is another lie, ask most people on here that own courses not in Montana if their rounds are going up, yes.  When baby boomers pass it's going to be another correction due to population and not course yardage bs talking points

Great post. Made my day. Some real gems in there.
Screw sustainability-we got lots of land in Merica.
Make it BIG BIG BIG.


I have many times in te past advocated the USGA and R&A control equipment.
This thread is NOT about that, but rather voluntary use of restricted flight balls for shared use of tees and social rounds.
No one's taking away your super ball.

Thank you.  I'm sure u order a big Mac when in drive thru... more hypocrisy. Ur the one eating at Mcerica. 


I'm glad my voluntary ideas are rubbing off on u  .  We have so much land our govt pays farmer money not to plant crops, yeah free market .


Sharing is caring, it could be fun.  I hit reduced range balls at BCC on our 2nd day of motor walking event. The few 5 irons I pured went nowhere and I found it demoralizing.  Made this core golfer wanna throw in the towel. 

[jeffwarne]

You bring up another good example Ben.
Ranges-in my 25 years in the MET Section I've seen MANY ranges go from useable, to not useable except for irons only. Or as you say-reduced flight range balls.
At least you pointed out where I can get reduced flight balls for a Goat match with my son.

[Garland Bayley]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong? 

Wrong. That would be George Bayer at about 530 yards.

[BCowan]

Funny thing is Jack Nicklaus I think still has the record for PGA long drive at 357 or something with persimmons back in the 50s or 60s, or am I wrong? 

Wrong. That would be George Bayer at about 530 yards.

 George Bayer best was 307.  Jack still has record at 341 or is 2nd. Impressive with that equipment and ball.


http://www.foxsports.com/golf/story/pga-championship-anirban-lahiri-long-drive-champion-competition-jack-nicklaus-081115

[jeffwarne]

Ben,
You and Garland are talking about two different things.
Your article is referencing long drive contest in PGA Championship practice round.
Garland is referring to the longest drive ever hit in a PGA Tour event

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