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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Architects: Have you ever turned down a job?
« on: September 25, 2017, 09:05:37 AM »
Please describe why. Thanks
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Architects: Have you ever turned down a job?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 09:26:44 AM »
Cary: it's not so much turning down a job, as going to look at one and then not pursuing it because you don't think its a good fit , or not even going to look at all.


I've dismissed many calls out of hand, either because it didn't sound like the project would ever get off the ground, or I didn't think the caller and I would see eye to eye on design issues, or because it was too far away and I wasn't comfortable sending my associates there (Russia, Africa, Sri Lanka).


I've gone to look at sites and then never pursued them because of the above reasons, or because I didn't find the land inspiring, or because I saw some problem with the land that I didn't think would let me build 18 good holes (not enough land, too steep, etc.).


I've declined potential projects in really good areas (like the Sand Hills) because I reasoned something better would come along later there, and I know I'm only likely to build one project in a given market.


I've even turned down jobs and then later reconsidered because the client kept pursuing until I was convinced they really wanted us (The Renaissance Club was one of those).


There are times when I wish I was busier and hadn't passed on something (which happened three years later than advertised and would have filled a hole for us, instead of stretching us thin).  But in the end the projects one turns down may have as much to do with establishing a reputation for quality work, as the ones that one accepts.


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Architects: Have you ever turned down a job?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 05:38:29 PM »

Cary, not that often, but it has happened.  I either sensed the client was borderline crook, or too much of a rube and/or without adequate funding to actually get a course built.


The former can often result in non-payment, the latter in lawsuits as they look for anyone else to blame for the failed course.


And, on occasion, we were simply too busy to go after a job.  The one that sticks out in my mind is one George Bahto ended up getting.  We did a lot of prelim work, but weren't sure of the owner.  We ran into a situation where I had to send our guy to an existing contract that paid well, or to NJ to work hourly on a job with (I thought) shaky potential.  I opted to serve the existing client.


As TD notes, I have had some projects I spent time on and they dies before any big payoff.  But every once in a while, they come back to life at just the right time (for the firm) so its hard to turn away too many. I do try to get at least a break even fee for some of the questionable ones so I am not hurt if/when they do go south.


I used to joke that is why I moved from Chicago to Dallas....so many projects went south, I figured I should go down there.......



Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Architects: Have you ever turned down a job?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 09:04:14 PM »

Yes, lots, but I have the advantage of being well established and a single person business.


I pretty much stick to Golden Age and pre-Golden age courses only.


I know when a course is a poor fit and I advise the club that I'm not the right guy.
I always thought it was the right thing to do for all involved.



With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....