[Steve_ Shaffer]

Visitors....Bear in mind that after overseeding is done and the courses open, conditions are not great- shaggy greens and fairways will exist as the grass is allowed to grow and is not cut to usual standards.


http://azgolfernews.com/article.php?arid=2394

[astavrides]

Do the courses aerify at the same time as the overseed?
Do the courses get kind of dry and bare a week or two before the overseeding starts in an attempt to get rid of the bermuda as much as possible?
Thanks.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@astavrides


1. No. My "club" aerified in late July/early August and closed for about 2 weeks.


2. Yes. http://turf.arizona.edu/Overseeding%20winter%20grasses%20into%20bermudagrass%20turf%20Aug%202014%20v3%20ltr.pdf


Some courses over seed in September, some in October.

[astavrides]

How is it that 2 of the 3 courses I've called so far in the Phoenix area said they have no clue if their course is on reclaimed water, and the third out of the 3 sounded like they were lying when they said they were on it? I talked to pro shop attendants, probably not pros, and definitely not the GM, or superintendent. But still, if these people work there, they should realize that water is a big, big issue in the desert, and probably most of the west coast.


Does it make as much of a difference as I think it does to the water supply of Phoenix whether the course is using reclaimed or not? If so, does anyone have any kind of list of which courses in the Phoenix area use it? From googling, it seems that all the courses in Scottsdale use it, and at least some of the surrounding area courses.


The 3 courses that I called were Camelback, Legacy, and Whirlwind, so if anyone has knowledge about these, please let me know.


Edit: I also called Marriott Wildfire, and they seemed to know a little bit more. The guy said they use it for some things and not others, but he was probably busy in the pro shop and didn't really seem like he had time to go into greater detail.

[David Wuthrich]

Would reclaimed water usage or not make a difference if you would play the course or not?

[astavrides]

Would reclaimed water usage or not make a difference if you would play the course or not?

Yes. It's not that I won't play a course if they don't, but it's a factor.


I live in Albuquerque, and a couple do use reclaimed, but most don't. I would get sick of playing just those few that do, but I probably play them a little more than I would otherwise.


Now if someone or something convinces me that reclaimed water doesn't have an impact in the future viability/liveability of the desert, then it would not be a factor. But I don't think that's the case. Otherwise, so many places wouldn't have gone to it. I don't think they do it because it's cheaper, because, from what I've read, it's often not cheaper.

[astavrides]

The 3 courses that I called were Camelback, Legacy, and Whirlwind, so if anyone has knowledge about these, please let me know.

I just noticed that it's printed on the Whirlwind scorecard that they use reclaimed. The other 2 scorecards don't say.

[SB]

If any supers are from Phoenix, please correct me, but my understanding is that most courses get their water from the Central Arizona Project, which originally provided farmers with their water.  When the farms got converted to housing and golf, the water demands actually went down slightly, meaning they didn't NEED reclaimed water.  That said, that's not infinitely sustainable, so some courses and cities converted to reclaimed water, in many cases as insurance for the day when someone decides to shut them off.  The problem is the cost to A) run the infrastructure from the water recycling plant to the course if you didn't do it upfront and B) the cost to build the recycling system, particularly one that can produce water with good enough quality that the water doesn't kill the grass.  That's why the cost of reclaimed water isn't any cheaper, and it's hard to get people to step up to the massive investment in the first place, even if it's bonded.  Because it's on a city by city basis, that's why its such a patchwork of ones that do and don't and it's also why you shouldn't blame the course.  They rarely have any say over the matter.

[astavrides]

If any supers are from Phoenix, please correct me, but my understanding is that most courses get their water from the Central Arizona Project, which originally provided farmers with their water.  When the farms got converted to housing and golf, the water demands actually went down slightly, meaning they didn't NEED reclaimed water.  That said, that's not infinitely sustainable, so some courses and cities converted to reclaimed water, in many cases as insurance for the day when someone decides to shut them off.  The problem is the cost to A) run the infrastructure from the water recycling plant to the course if you didn't do it upfront and B) the cost to build the recycling system, particularly one that can produce water with good enough quality that the water doesn't kill the grass.  That's why the cost of reclaimed water isn't any cheaper, and it's hard to get people to step up to the massive investment in the first place, even if it's bonded.  Because it's on a city by city basis, that's why its such a patchwork of ones that do and don't and it's also why you shouldn't blame the course.  They rarely have any say over the matter.

Thanks for the post. I realize there are many reasons why a course may or may not be on reclaimed water, and I don't necessarily blame them, but I do want to try to support sustainability.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Would reclaimed water usage or not make a difference if you would play the course or not?

Yes. It's not that I won't play a course if they don't, but it's a factor.


I live in Albuquerque, and a couple do use reclaimed, but most don't. I would get sick of playing just those few that do, but I probably play them a little more than I would otherwise.


Now if someone or something convinces me that reclaimed water doesn't have an impact in the future viability/liveability of the desert, then it would not be a factor. But I don't think that's the case. Otherwise, so many places wouldn't have gone to it. I don't think they do it because it's cheaper, because, from what I've read, it's often not cheaper.

If thats a factor, you're going to be considerably limiting your places to play as the years go by. Maybe courses are choosing to go with non potable water to ensure that at least have water, as it will continue to get very scares.
  Reclaim water is cheaper than having to buy fresh water from the city.

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