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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #125 on: January 01, 2020, 10:32:50 AM »
Dan -

Last I heard the new 7th hole is already open for play, with mats being used in the fairway. Assuming a mild/warm spring (good "grow-in" weather), there is a good chance the mats will not be needed in the summer.

DT


such a great enhancement to RDGC


can't wait to get back there


Happy New Year
It's all about the golf!

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2020, 08:16:41 PM »
Very much looking forward to revisiting the new fairway. Although I received an email from a fellow GCA'er reminding me that I may have been the first to have played it.  ;)
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.


Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #128 on: April 28, 2020, 03:21:18 PM »
I have to confess to being MASSIVELY disappointed with the bunkering scheme. Just leaves me thinking, “eh?”
And as for the poor proof-reading of the opening captions - well!
Dornoh, indeed...
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ian Galbraith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #129 on: April 28, 2020, 04:26:16 PM »
I really hope the fairway terrain is not as featureless as the drone fly over looks. Fairway seems to have no lumps and bumps at all. The approach seems to ask no interesting questions either. Flyover seems more interested in showing the sea views. Must get back soon to see it for myself.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #130 on: April 28, 2020, 05:35:10 PM »
That skyline green is certainly going to be outstanding although it does appear that there was not a great deal of thought beyond making sure that the views were spectacular. 

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #131 on: April 28, 2020, 06:02:40 PM »
Not sure what you guys were expecting! The old 7th hole was straight, rather flat and, aside from a subtly interesting green, rather featureless. :)   


There was no expectation the new 7th hole would be a big change from that, except for exposing the hole to a spectacular view.

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #132 on: April 28, 2020, 06:15:03 PM »
David,


I agree. If the old 7th shares the same natural terrain counters with the new 7, then so be it. Imagine the complaints if any artificial shaping had been done...


What will happen with the old 7 fairway and green? That seems to be the one spot where RD is now needing more gorse... will it be converted to a driving range?

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #133 on: April 28, 2020, 06:17:46 PM »
I've not been there but geez...take away the flowering gorse and the ocean backdrop and...blech.

The Facebook video is only rivaled perhaps by the Merion restoration one for feigned drama and poseur pretentiousness.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #134 on: April 28, 2020, 06:32:27 PM »
What will happen with the old 7 fairway and green?

MC -

I believe the turf of the old 7th green was stripped and used to sod an expansion of the current practice putting green.


The tees for the 8th hole will be moved to the site of the old 7th green, the gorse behind the old 7th green will be cleared out to create a fairway and become the "new" upper level of the 8th fairway (although I expect the landing area on the upper level to remain in about the same place). The hole will play more as a dogleg. I am not sure when these changes will take place. 


I do not know what is planned for the old 7th fairway.


DT

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2020, 03:35:01 AM »
I have to confess to being MASSIVELY disappointed with the bunkering scheme. Just leaves me thinking, “eh?”
And as for the poor proof-reading of the opening captions - well!
Dornoh, indeed...
F.



Marty,


the only goal of this rebuild seemed to be 'more spectacular please' so in that respect it looks good to me. I don't think you can tell about the contouring from the drone. I had the same feeling about the bunkering as you but at least it is not the boring blowout, natural looking type with the frilly curtain edges.


I am still amazed they chose to do this as apposed to sorting out the various problems on the back nine but then I suppose spectacular means more US exposure.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2020, 05:02:49 AM »
Yes, my understanding was the relatively dull hole would be replaced by essentially the same with a view. Does anybody know why the club chose not to shape the fairway a bit more?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2020, 06:11:33 AM »

Sean,


if it were just the view they could have just removed the gorse and had the same effect for a lot, lot less money. The change was about getting closer to the edge of the drop. Add another 20 minutes to the round in summer for the excitement. I do have high hopes that the 8th will be significantly improved off the tee and for the second shot for most players.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2020, 06:16:58 AM »

Sean,

if it were just the view they could have just removed the gorse and had the same effect for a lot, lot less money. The change was about getting closer to the edge of the drop. Add another 20 minutes to the round in summer for the excitement. I do have high hopes that the 8th will be significantly improved off the tee and for the second shot for most players.

Well yes, the view from the edge of a precipice is better than from 50 yards away. I still wonder why the club chose not to inject a bit more playing interest in the hole.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2020, 07:25:00 AM »
I think that the old 7th green was a bit more than subtly interesting.  It was the highlight of an otherwise bland but hard hole.  I do hope the new green is as good but am not hopeful.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #140 on: April 29, 2020, 08:02:38 AM »
Does anybody know why the club chose not to shape the fairway a bit more?

Sean -
 
My guess is it is because the ground in that area (under both the old and new 7th holes) is not "links-like" at all. There is virtually no sand (and very little topsoil) in the ground in that area. It is full of stones and rocks. I believe they had to spread a layer of sand and top soil on the new fairway to cover the stones and provide an adequate soil profile for grass to grow. Attempting to shape the new fairway would be quite difficult.


If you recall, all the bunkers on the old 7th hole are quite shallow. I suspect that is because the ground under those bunkers is very dense with stones and rocks.

DT 

P.S. The ridge of land under the 7th holes could well be part of an esker ("a ridge of stratified sand and gravel").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esker
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 08:10:38 AM by David_Tepper »

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #141 on: April 29, 2020, 09:21:05 AM »
Well that was not what I expected at all. I played there two years ago. It's my favorite course. The old 7th stood out for its blandness ... not that it was a bad hole, just that everything else was so damn good. When I heard they were shifting the fairway over, I had high expectations they would create something to match what came before it. Instead ... I agree with the comments posted above. The bunkering ... yawn. Doesn't fit the hole with nearly the perfection on what you find on holes 1-6. They just look like two lost little saucers in a flat field. The view from the green looks incredible, but they couldn't have produced the same effect clearing the gorse behind the old 7? I don't know ... this is incredibly underwhelming. Once again ... not awful ... but why rebuild a hole if you aren't going to improve on it?

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #142 on: April 29, 2020, 09:36:51 AM »
David

You beat me to it regarding the shaping of the hole. I'm no engineering expert but a more rumpled fairway might have produced more and deeper water collection points. Not an issue on the lower links land but would be an issue on the 7th. I wonder also if they were conscious of what happened at Castle Stuart during one of the Scottish Opens when they had various land slips that were supposedly caused by the shaping of the fairways on the upper holes causing the water to drain off at points it hadn't before, resulting in the top soil becoming sodden and slipping down the slope.

Dan

What about the intent of an infinity green ? It's not there just to provide a nice view but also to challenge the player to hit the ball long enough. Likewise with hugging the cliff edge to the right of the hole. Keeping the same green and chopping down the gorse behind wouldn't have made a jot of difference to the playing characteristics.

Mark

I agree, the old green had some very good contours but didn't really offer any real strategy to make the travel from tee to green all that interesting. I very much like the idea of the new hole and hopefully they pull it off.

Niall

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #143 on: April 29, 2020, 10:14:14 AM »
Niall -

While I suspect the new 7th fairway is not as flat as it appears in the drone video, you are correct about water collecting in hollows and not being able to drain quickly. That did happen on the old 7th fairway, which was the slowest draining spot on the course.

DT

Mark Mammel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #144 on: May 03, 2020, 10:29:14 AM »
David's point about the old 7th hole deserves comment. RDGC is unusual among the world's great courses in that it is quite diferent today than it was in John Sutherland's day. The club has never hesitated to change the course layout; just a few years ago they altered the entire landing area of the 3rd hole, shifting it to the right in response to complaints from homeowners on the high ridge far to the left of the tee, over ferocious gorse, complaining that they were in range of an errant tee shot. Personally, I'm not sure most of us could have hit any of those properties even if we tried. Now, in the US, living on a golf course comes with the assumed risk of the odd ball showing up in your yard. But the club rerouted the hole in response to these complaints. The seventh hole was essentially a "linking" hole from the older part of the course, which only went out as far a 6, and the new land acquired by the club in the late 1940s from the Duke of Sutherland and developed by George Duncan (Sutherland died in 1941). It has always been the least interesting hole on an otherwise fantastic layout- though it maintains the great flow of walking along the seaside. The club believed that the land now occupied by the redone 7th was so much more spectacular that it made sense to redo it- and also to give the 8th hole a different feel, since it previously was similar to 17. I was told that the original 7th green was lasered to allow its duplication for the new hole. I was supposed to be there now to find out but, of course, no travel or golf there at the moment. I can't wait to see how it plays.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #145 on: May 03, 2020, 11:48:42 AM »
But does 'more spectacular' mean better?

Lou_Duran

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Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #146 on: May 03, 2020, 12:19:30 PM »
But does 'more spectacular' mean better?


Holding everything else equal- and I don't think that anyone is yet arguing that the old 7th is better than the new- yes, by definition.


I can't say I have affection for the old 7th, but i do respect its challenge, especially in its place in the routing following short to medium-length holes.  It is a 4.5 par for me, requiring a strong, well-placed drive, followed by a long, solid approach and still leaving me a lot of work on or around the green.


As others (maybe the Eion, the Course Mgr.) have noted, great attention was paid to replicating the contour details of the old green.  My sight is not the greatest, but I walked around the new green a couple of times late last summer and it looked every bit the equal to its predecessor with the obvious benefits of its superior location.

Re: the portion of the property being vacated, if it is not "common  good land" (which it probably is), how about 8-10 estate lots with deep set-backs?  The revenue could go a long ways in bringing the financials back to good health and partially funding the proposed clubhouse (which is probably pushed well-back in priority).

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #147 on: May 03, 2020, 01:15:15 PM »

Lou,


from purely a golfing GCA point of view what makes the new green location superior?


I suspect that the club is still okay financially though it might be wise to hold on the new clubhouse. I doubt there is a cat in hells chance of any housing being built up there and even if there were the club would be foolish to allow it following the experience on the third.


I still have not seen any reason as to how this hole improves the course. Indeed, I suspect it will just add 20 minutes to the round.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #148 on: May 03, 2020, 09:04:32 PM »
what is all this naysaying, as if you own the club, geez
can't wait to play
It's all about the golf!

Mike Leveille

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress
« Reply #149 on: May 03, 2020, 09:58:41 PM »
Jon:


I’m curious as to why you think the redesigned 7th hole will add 20 minutes to a round.


Mike