[Niall C]

Rich
 
Once RDGC gets as good as Moray Old, then your fellow members can start dreaming 
 
That said, I’m not sure I agree with your analysis of how the 8^th will be changed although I acknowledge my extreme inexperience of the hole relative to you and Mr Tepper, but it strikes me that at the moment if you hit a ball over the edge it is almost certainly going to end up right side and likely in the right rough. However driving from the right means your ball is going left(ish), and therefore, while the slope will bring the ball round to the right some you have some chance of getting onto the left hand-side of the fairway. You’re also approaching the top of the slope at an angle and it’s always good to have angles.
 
Niall

[Niall C]

.....I also meant to add that the new 8th will introduce the relative novelty of a left to right dog-leg at Dornoch.


Niall

[Rich Goodale]

Compadre


Moray Old, IF you can cleanse your mind regarding the occasional supersonic jets taking off and landing and the fact that there is no there there in the town of Lossiemouth, one can imagine Lossie as good as Dornoch (and miles better than Nairn and Castle Stuart) but it'll never be much more than a hidden gem similar to Silloth and Glasgow Gailes and Forfar.  Am I sniffing a connection here....?


As to the need for an R-L hole at Dornoch, 3 and 12 come to  mind.  8 and 17 are effectively straight, if you can drive to the left of the marker post on each.  Carve it right on either and you have a long shot rather than a short iron to the green, to punch bowls each (one sunken and one elevated).  Great variety.


I still don't get the need for the changes, but vive la difference!


Rich

[Jon Wiggett]

Rich,


you are correct that RDGC has enough R to L holes but must agree with Niall that the new 8th will introduce a relatively novel L to R one. Arse-elbow, left-right. It can be difficult to know the difference sometimes


As for the 8th and the 17th being straight 


However, I concur entirely with your worries mooted in your previous post.


Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses like Dornoch because of delusions of grandeur by incompetent greens committee members is sad.

Looking forward to Eoin's explanation of who is doing the work & why it's being done.

the king of nothing#

Bill I don’t know any club over here with a greens committee. They are bullshit, let the experts do the work within the parameters and budget set by the board of directors.

[Niall C]

Rich


I think you'll find there is a sub section of the population that find fighter jets flying 50 feet above their heads as an added attraction. Maybe not a big sub section but there you go. And yes, guilty as charged, always looking to promote the unsung heroes.


Niall


ps. I think you're being a trifle harsh on Nairn but I assume that's just a Dornoch thing 

[David_Tepper]

Substantial press release that should answer a number of questions:

http://www.scottishgolfview.com/2018/01/royal-dornochs-new-seventh-hole-will-be.html

[Sean_A]

What was done to 10-12?

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

"What was done to 10-12?"
 
Sean -

The tee on #10 was expanded on the left side.

The tee boxes for #12, that were adjacent to the left/back side of the 11th green, were removed.

A new tee box on #12 was built perhaps 20 yards to the left of the 11th green and a new portion of fairway was built linking the new tee to the old fairway.

DT

[MClutterbuck]

David, do you know why they are taking so long to put the new hole in play? With the advances I am seeing, I would be surprised if they dont seed by July... that hole could be ready in 2019....

[David_Tepper]

Marcos -

I am no expert on how fast a quality turf fairway can grow from seed in northern Scotland. My guess is it could take more than one season, as there is little or no grass growth from November thru the end of March.

Growing quality turf on a green might very well take longer, although I don't know if the new green on #7 will be grown from seed or sodded with turf grown elsewhere.

My guess is the club would rather the hole be opened a year too late than a year too soon.

DT

[Sean_A]

"What was done to 10-12?"
 
Sean -

The tee on #10 was expanded on the left side.

The tee boxes for #12, that were adjacent to the left/back side of the 11th green, were removed.

A new tee box on #12 was built perhaps 20 yards to the left of the 11th green and a new portion of fairway was built linking the new tee to the old fairway.

DT

Thanks David.  Why did they remove the 12th tee rather than simply add another?


Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,


they have taken the opportunity to extend the playing area of the green surround at the back and left of the 11th. I have to say that I am quite positive about the changes made despite my normal scepticism about such things. I do however wonder why they have not tackled the more obviously problems the course has first.


Jon

[David_Tepper]

Sean -

In addition to the reason Jon W. mentions, another reason the tee on #12 was moved to the left was to create more room between the landing areas for tee shots from the 5th and 12th tees.

DT

[MClutterbuck]

Sean,


they have taken the opportunity to extend the playing area of the green surround at the back and left of the 11th. I have to say that I am quite positive about the changes made despite my normal scepticism about such things. I do however wonder why they have not tackled the more obviously problems the course has first.


Jon

For example?

[Jon Wiggett]

Lack of diversity in the par 3s plus the woeful 10th for starters.

[Sean_A]

Lack of diversity in the par 3s plus the woeful 10th for starters.

What do you mean lack of diversity?  Is that in the sense that the 3s are all essentially carry holes?

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,


the 2nd and 6th both usually play the same club and require any shot green high to be straight with the only bailout laying up which on a par three sucks. The 10th and 13th also usually play the same club with no bailout option. The 13th is playable in most weather conditions but the 10th in summer with a stiff breeze behind (not uncommon) is impossible to hold the green leaving a very difficult recovery.


I think the 2nd is a great hole and I really like the 13th putting surface though I think the hole is over bunkered. The 6th is a good hole though I do not overly care for it.


With the 10th no one will persuade me is anything other than a dreadful hole. The others are very good holes but as a set somewhat monotone.


For the 10th an easy solution to make the hole passable would be to remove the front bunker leaving a swale with the possibility of a run up shot but if they were to build a new green on any of the holes on the course this would be my first port of call.


Jon

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I'm in agreement with Jon. RDGC could spend their money first on some more obvious negatives.


Improvements that could be made to improve the views and improve the turf quality and reduce their penal nature is a radical reduction of the gorse.
The towering height of the gorse is not a pleasant sight, at least if one could see over the top of it the views would please the eye, and more sun could nurture the turf.
A few years ago there were photos in the club house of earlier days when there was far less gorse. Incidently I couldn't find the photos this year in the new look sanitised corporate style club area.
Unfortunatly the towering height of gorse has a negative impact on other highland golf courses most notably Hopeman GC and Moray Nr.2 and to a lesser extent Moray Old.

[MClutterbuck]

I agree John. If I were to change one thing at Dornoch, it would be clearing gorse and giving it width. Some of the holes on the first stretch could do away with left side gorse and leave some nice rough. There is enough penalty hitting from rough and from the side of a hill, and it would give you the chance of finding your ball. Maybe. 

[Thomas Dai]

Not specifically about Royal Dornoch or Moray or Hopeman or wherever, but I quite like gorse, certainly better than trees.
atb

[Niall C]

Dai
 
I don’t think gorse is bad but it does have its place. Arguably Dornoch is one course that would be much poorer if all the gorse were taken out. The banks of gorse on the way out can be readily avoidable and looks spectacular in bloom.
 
The 17^th and 18^th however, certainly the last time I was there, could do with a clear out. A solid wall of gorse up both sides is just oppressive.
 
Niall

[MClutterbuck]

Thomas, Niall:


I would not qualify gorse as bad, it is actually very beautiful and I understand it can be used strategically. What I sometimes have doubts about is the dense, continuous gorse from tee to green. Especially on holes where there was little or no gorse at the time of construction.


A lateral water hazard is less penal.


Often on this site folks argue that a water hazard fronting a green is too penal because certain players can not fly it. I would argue that not being able to fly a small pond is a problem faced by a really small fraction of players as compared to those that hit a hook every 3-4 drives. At Dornoch that is an automatic lost ball on the way out.


Dornoch is a magnificient course that can be left alone and it will continue to be magnificent. Personally, I think that if anything is done, either thinning out gorse considerably so that some balls are found, or allowing for more width before continous gorse commences would be a good change.

[David_Tepper]

It should be noted that Royal Dornoch has removed/reduced a fair amount of gorse over the past 5-10 years on both the Championship and the Struie courses.

On the Championship course, gorse has been removed

- between the 2nd & 18 holes
- in front of the tee & all along the left of the 6th hole
- along the right side of the 16th fairway
- on both sides of the upper level of the 17th fairway and on the right side of the lower level of the 17th fairway

I recall one GCA-er decrying those changes here as "dumbing down" the course.

On the Struie course, the very penal lines of gorse that separated the 5th, 7th &14th holes have been cut way back.

   

[Sean_A]

Sean,

the 2nd and 6th both usually play the same club and require any shot green high to be straight with the only bailout laying up which on a par three sucks. The 10th and 13th also usually play the same club with no bailout option. The 13th is playable in most weather conditions but the 10th in summer with a stiff breeze behind (not uncommon) is impossible to hold the green leaving a very difficult recovery.

I think the 2nd is a great hole and I really like the 13th putting surface though I think the hole is over bunkered. The 6th is a good hole though I do not overly care for it.

With the 10th no one will persuade me is anything other than a dreadful hole. The others are very good holes but as a set somewhat monotone.

For the 10th an easy solution to make the hole passable would be to remove the front bunker leaving a swale with the possibility of a run up shot but if they were to build a new green on any of the holes on the course this would be my first port of call.

Jon

Jon


I can't disagree with your analysis, but I do with the conclusion.  The worst thing about 13 is the walk to the tee!  I agree with 10...not a clever design for a downwind hole and given the wind it was an opportunity to build a tricky bounce in hole.  I don't mind similar clubs for the 3s if the shots are compelling.  The worst thing about 2 is the crappy gorse...its far too intrusive for such an exacting shot.  But then, I am one to think that gorse should be kept well to the wings mainly to be a pretty backdrop.  Too much time is spent foraging through those awful things. They spread like wildfire and  take time and money to control properly. Plus, I believe gorse bushes release a chemical which encourages lush grass/plants to grow...bad news for links.  All in all, I would say courses are better off without gorse if its a on or off situation.

Ciao

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