Royal Dornoch - New 7th hole in progress

[Mike Benham]

The new 7th hole under construction at Royal Dornoch. The first is looking down the new fairway. The 2nd is looking back down the fairway from the green site. The new 7th hole will sit close to the edge of the plateau above the 11th hole and will overlook the Dornoch Firth.

It sure looks like the new hole will play as a dogleg left.

[Marty Bonnar]

Mike,
Surely it's dog-legging Right - towards the ocean?
Rich/Stan, Help!


F.

[Thomas Dai]

Nice trees......not! Time for some copper nails perhaps?
Atb

[Eoin Riddell]

The green will be on the far right looking down to the 9th green 10th tees, so it will be a slight dogleg to the right, at the moment not all bushes have been cut down, the reason for this is we will be playing the original hole for the next few years so do not want to break through until we have to, it is difficult to see the exact route at the moment until this happens, we will be concentrating on the green site and green surround first.

[Tom_Doak]

I find it weird (and depressing) that they tried to model parts of Kingsbarns after Dornoch, and now Dornoch is remodeling to be more like Kingsbarns.  The influence of the American dollar is apparently too great to resist.

[Marty Bonnar]

The green will be on the far right looking down to the 9th green 10th tees, so it will be a slight dogleg to the right, at the moment not all bushes have been cut down, the reason for this is we will be playing the original hole for the next few years so do not want to break through until we have to, it is difficult to see the exact route at the moment until this happens, we will be concentrating on the green site and green surround first.

Thanks, Eoin. Always great to get info straight from the horse's mouth!
Cheers,
F.

[John Foley]

Why is there a need to make this change?

[Rich Goodale]

Mike,
Surely it's dog-legging Right - towards the ocean?
Rich/Stan, Help!


F.

Correctemundo, F!


The success of this "enhancement" (particularly the destruction of a truly great green as well as the new green location's effect on the world class 8th) is too soon to tell.


R.

[Niall C]

I find it weird (and depressing) that they tried to model parts of Kingsbarns after Dornoch, and now Dornoch is remodeling to be more like Kingsbarns.  The influence of the American dollar is apparently too great to resist.

Are they remodelling Dornoch to be like Kingsbarns ? For sure KB, and Castle Stuart, are heavily influenced by Dornoch which isn’t weird in itself given how in thrall US visitors are with Dornoch, but I don’t really see how this change is Dornoch trying to be like KB (and CS). It’s not as though Dornoch didn’t have an infinity type green already in the 16^th which KB’s 4^th and CS’s 12^th are influenced by.
 
It just seems to me like a club tweaking and improving where they can. As much as I like the current green the rest of the hole issn’t much to savour and I suspect in 20/30 years no one will regret what they are doing now.
 
Niall

[MClutterbuck]

The 7th is a tough one. With one round played there I cant say much, but its length surely called for a driver which was difficult to hold on the fairway. I hit a perfect line, straight like an arrow, and it slowly bounced off the fairway. It seems like one has to be able to draw the ball on that hole and that can be very tough for an amateur. Maybe that is also a consideration to change the hole?

[Ted Sirbaugh]

The 7th is a tough one. With one round played there I cant say much, but its length surely called for a driver which was difficult to hold on the fairway. I hit a perfect line, straight like an arrow, and it slowly bounced off the fairway. It seems like one has to be able to draw the ball on that hole and that can be very tough for an amateur. Maybe that is also a consideration to change the hole?

I'm not sure the new hole will play any easier. Based on the proposed plans, the hole will be the same length... though the fairway could be more receptive, I feel like a greater wind exposure could make it play harder than it does now?


The driving reason for the change seems to really be that this is what the modern architect would do to make the most of the views

[Rich Goodale]

MC


If you think the 7th is narrow now you would have hated it in the 1980's before they cut back the gorse by at least 20 feet from either side of the fairway.


TD


There is a bit of homage at Kingsbarn vis a vis Dornoch, but it was possible to do so because there was a natural set of geological formations (from the high firm ancient beaches down to the active beaches by the sea) lying underneath the farmers fields.  It was not difficult to terraform the land to go back and forth up and down, similar to Dornoch.  To say that RDGC is trying to emulate Kinbgsbarns is ludicrous.


NC


Tweaking is what they are doing, but so far, it is far less successful than the extension of the course from the 6th to the 11th in 1946.  Few people out there, or even here, has a clue as to what the course looked like prior to WWII.


Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

I find it weird (and depressing) that they tried to model parts of Kingsbarns after Dornoch, and now Dornoch is remodeling to be more like Kingsbarns.  The influence of the American dollar is apparently too great to resist.

I don't think this is the case at all.
While Mackenzie/Ebert made hole-by-hole recommendations, it was the RDGC membership who voted on the individual changes. Some were approved, some were not.


The membership is not following what trends are in vogue. I think there was an overall feeling that, while the 7th green was indeed interesting, the 7th hole could be made better. Also, and perhaps this is to Tom's point, the 7th is basically the only hole from which you cannot see the water....;-)


Some more info with link to more pics for you FB users:


[size=0pt]7^th Hole [/size][/size]– As per the Greens Convenors statement at the AGM that we would be carrying out the changes to the 7^th hole in-house over the next 4 winters so that we can open it for play in the 2021 season then I am delighted to say that our team have started the first stage which is to remove the whin bushes in the area of the intended fairway. A 10 yard buffer strip of bushes has been left next to the existing hole so that it still looks, feels and plays as it does at the moment. For pictures of the work and continuing progress, as well as lots of other things our team get up to please follow our team on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=royal%20dornoch%20greenkeepers[size=78%]:


[/size]

[Ian Mackenzie]

Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses like Dornoch because of delusions of grandeur by incompetent greens committee members is sad.

Looking forward to Eoin's explanation of who is doing the work & why it's being done.

the king of nothing#

Easy now...


Is that what people said after WW II when four new holes were built on the championship course? Looks like it all worked out.

[MClutterbuck]

Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses like Dornoch because of delusions of grandeur by incompetent greens committee members is sad.

Looking forward to Eoin's explanation of who is doing the work & why it's being done.

the king of nothing#

Are we sure a bulldozer and shaping will be involved? Maybe just green site? If just green is done more efficiently by dozer but with similar style as before is it all bad?

[David Davis]

Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses like Dornoch because of delusions of grandeur by incompetent greens committee members is sad.

Looking forward to Eoin's explanation of who is doing the work & why it's being done.

the king of nothing#

Schulzie,


No way it's going to be flat and bulldozed. If you remember the right side was totally full of gorse. Guess you could argue either way but the hole will be both better and more spectacular I'd be willing to bet. However, what it won't I'm guessing is the same as it was when it was made but then again I'm not sure of this.


The work they did at Turnberry, Portrush and Cruden Bay was not only thoughtful but excellent work, not flat and bulldozed. As always opinions will vary. Traditionalist might be disappointed. You my man, are no traditionalist, you post way too many photos of spiritually enhanced you ladies for that.

[Rich Goodale]

Easy now...


Is that what people said after WW II when four new holes were built on the championship course? Looks like it all worked out.

Six new holes, actually, Ian....


1. New 6th tee and green (old 6th green is now the 11th green)
2. Completely new 7th
3. Completely new 8th
4. Completely new 9th
5. Completely new 10th
6. Completely New 11th fairway (played to the old 6th green)


All great and all designed by GCAmateurs  (Duncan, McCulloch and Grant).  It ain't rocket science if you have great land forms.


Rich

[Niall C]

Bill


That's a ludicrous comment, to borrow someone else's term. Do you realise that pretty well all great links of the same vintage have been transformed over the years by constant evolution and at times extensive redesign ? I've got to wonder if it was Tom, or Coore & Crenshaw or Gil Hanse or one of this sites favoured sons that were doing the work, whether you be writing what you did. Personally I'm just happy they took professional advice.


Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses.....

Any examples where machines have been used in such a gentle and sensitive manner, maybe at a later finishing-off time, such that the 'natural' ripples and humps and lumps and wee depressions and washboard type fairways that are so nice on 'original' links courses are well replicated? If so what kind of machines and techniques were used?


Atb

[MClutterbuck]

Does the fact they are taking 4 years to complete the project suggest they will be extremely careful about not bringing in heavy equipment onto the future fairways? It seems that in this timeframe they might clear the new fairway of plant material and roots very carefully, as well, as seed fescues and allow it to grow in on the natural terrain. 

[David_Tepper]

"Like the Cruden Bay proposed changes, the introduction of a bulldozer graded level fairway on one of golf's most special courses like Dornoch because of delusions of grandeur by incompetent greens committee members is sad."

The ground shown in these photos is simply the ground just to the right of the current 7th fairway stripped of the gorse and underbrush that was growing on top of it.

It would be a mistake to assume that the land has been bulldozed or graded (or will be in the future ).   

[Pete_Pittock]

Will it have any impact on the 8th, a different tee???

[David_Tepper]

"Will it have any impact on the 8th, a different tee???"

Pete P. -

Yes, there will be changes to the 8th tee and the upper portion of the 8th fairway. They will likely take place several years down the road.

DT

[Jon Wiggett]

I do question this change to the course. The 7th is a really good hole and brings much to the rhythm and pace of the course. I suspect this has more to do with eye candy than any thing of golfing interest or architectural substance. One thing I can say with surety is it will add 15 to 20 minutes to the round as hapless golfers look in vain for lost ball down the right.


I liked very much the new fairway alignment on 3 but think RDGC would be better advised to address the lack of variety of their par threes especially the woeful 10th.


Thomas, I disagree with you about the general standard of the 7th. It adds a lot to the golf course especially in the routing and rhythm of the course which is something very few even on here really understand or appreciate. Although you might be right that the hole could be improved when looked at individually the big danger and for me certainty is that the new hole will lessen the course overall. I know many on here will choke at my next comment but where as a course such as Alwoodley is a great example of a course that is greater as a whole than the sum of its parts RDGC fails by a margin in this way and the alterations to seven will I fear only increase this deficit though I hope I am wrong.


To your other point about micro undulations it is something that I have never seen pulled off in any course built after the 1930s though doubles there are examples out there. One of the great things about living up in the Highlands is there are so many courses that are still more or less intact mainly due to a lack of funds to tinker with.




Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas, I disagree with you about the general standard of the 7th. It adds a lot to the golf course especially in the routing and rhythm of the course which is something very few even on here really understand or appreciate. Although you might be right that the hole could be improved when looked at individually the big danger and for me certainty is that the new hole will lessen the course overall. I know many on here will choke at my next comment but where as a course such as Alwoodley is a great example of a course that is greater as a whole than the sum of its parts RDGC fails by a margin in this way and the alterations to seven will I fear only increase this deficit though I hope I am wrong.

To your other point about micro undulations it is something that I have never seen pulled off in any course built after the 1930s though doubles there are examples out there. One of the great things about living up in the Highlands is there are so many courses that are still more or less intact mainly due to a lack of funds to tinker with.

Jon

Jon,
Thanks for the info about micro undulations/history etc. I wonder if anyone can name some examples? Maybe there really aren't any! Nice features, I take your point about lack of £ to tinker with them. A pleasing example perhaps of less can be more?
Bit confused about the top para. Was that really me?
Atb