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John Foley

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2017, 09:18:45 AM »
Other that Old Mac & Black Creek has there been a Mac/Raynor complete tribute built?


I love the concept and I love even more Peter's idea to do a Garden City / Emmett tribute.


How about a 36 hole GC / CGC side by side!! The hell with Lido - lets convince someone on this concept!!
Integrity in the moment of choice

Mike_DeVries

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2017, 11:38:50 PM »
I suspect that once all of the trees are cleared, there will be more movement evident in the land, but I don't expect to see anything as dramatic as Kingsley, Crystal Downs, or AB1.   


Crystal Downs has more than 100 feet of elevation change from #8 fairway to #12 fairway ... actually it has almost 80 feet just from the bottom of #11 fairway to the top of #12 fairway.  Kingsley must have close to 100 feet, if not more.  And the first course at Arcadia Bluffs has at least 75 feet based on distant memory, so the new site is quite a bit flatter than any of those named.


The Loop at Forest Dunes only has about 30 feet of total elevation change, for comparison purposes.

Kingsley only has slightly over 100' from high point (#3/5 tee) to low point (#12 fwy and #14 fwy in the approach) while the Downs has over 200' from #12 fwy to the wetland in front of #8 tees / next to #7 fwy.

Howard Riefs

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2017, 12:50:02 PM »
Work on the course began in April, according to the following article:


http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/new-south-course-at-arcadia-bluffs-begins-to-take-shape
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bill_McBride

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2017, 09:18:59 PM »
Nice!  I've talked with public golfers in Michigan for my entire life and I can tell you that one thing kept coming up over and over again.  They wanted a course that reminded them of Chicago Golf Club.  To a man, everyone I talked to really liked Chicago Golf and wanted some of that closer to home.


Unless they went to the 2005 Walker Cup, as I did, how would Michigan public golfers have any clue about Chicago Golf Club?  That place is about as private as it gets.

BCowan

Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2017, 09:40:43 PM »
Nice!  I've talked with public golfers in Michigan for my entire life and I can tell you that one thing kept coming up over and over again.  They wanted a course that reminded them of Chicago Golf Club.  To a man, everyone I talked to really liked Chicago Golf and wanted some of that closer to home.


Unless they went to the 2005 Walker Cup, as I did, how would Michigan public golfers have any clue about Chicago Golf Club?  That place is about as private as it gets.


Sarcasm and educational for GCAers at the same time.  One of Jason's best post. 

Chris_Blakely

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2017, 09:03:59 AM »
Other that Old Mac & Black Creek has there been a Mac/Raynor complete tribute built?



Stonebridge Golf Links Hauppauge, NY by Gil Hanse and George Bahto opened in 2001.  However, I believe George did most of it.


If you look at the link below they even have the Mac / Raynor hole names.


http://www.stonebridgeglcc.com/course_statistics/#h1


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,12081.msg202226.html#msg202226


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,12137.msg203700.html#msg203700

Ben Hollerbach

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Erik Mosley

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2017, 09:25:01 AM »

Fry/Straka posted these pictures of the second Arcadia course to twitter.  I believe this is holes 1-3, although the bunker definition is different than what's on the routing posted by Ben last month.  Regardless of whether it's a good tribute or not to Chicago GC (I'll let the experts weigh in), it definitely makes me want to get up there and play it!  Can't think of another recent design with those types of lines/sharp edges.


https://twitter.com/FryStrakaGolf/status/886687939572453377

John Kavanaugh

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2017, 10:21:22 AM »
Hello envelope. Looks like it is putt up or shut up time for the American Resort golfer.

PCCraig

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2017, 11:35:36 AM »
This course proves that the Raynor / MacDonald school of architecture has "jumped the shark."
H.P.S.

Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2017, 11:55:57 AM »
Does Chicago Golf have that many squared off greens?

I'd think typical resort golfers won't have a clue about the CGC tribute and think the greens are weird.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
One of the guys in my regular group is a member of Chicago Golf. He brought it up once...crickets. It's not big with the sansabelts.

JC Jones

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2017, 12:20:19 PM »
I think it looks good and reflects the engineered style of Mac/Raynor and even Langford at Lawsonia.  Will be cool to see.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,8302.25.html

Also of note is how the fairway bunkering is very reminiscent of Chicago Golf.  Looks a lot like the 14th.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mark Pritchett

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2017, 12:27:55 PM »
This course proves that the Raynor / MacDonald school of architecture has "jumped the shark."


How so?

Richard Hetzel

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2017, 04:39:45 PM »
I love the early looks of it and will make for a nice 36 hole day with Arcadia Bluffs. Can't wait to get back up there!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Steve Lang

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2017, 08:37:00 PM »
 8)  After looking at CGC satellite view, it appears they're definitely in tribute mode at AB-South.  Should be interesting, not sure what's going to be inspiring for most folks from playing ground view, the angular lines juxtaposed to the gentle topography??






 
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jason Way

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 10:39:30 PM »
Had the pleasure of walking Arcadia Bluffs South with one of the shapers, Justin Carlton, this evening.  Justin is a great dude, and my kind of golf geek. 

The front nine is essentially finished and growing in nicely, and the back nine is coming together quickly.  Earlier posts referencing the style of the bunkers reflecting that of CGC, with a dash of Lawsonia L&M, are accurate.  The land does indeed have a beautiful, gentle roll to it.  The fairways are wide, but contain some humps and movement that acts as a dose of quirk.

I think that someone might have mentioned above that the routing changed from what was originally drafted.  Not surprisingly, that is true.  At least two holes on the back nine have changed, and from what I can see, that was a very good call.  Improved the green to tee transitions in that area (which are walker friendly throughout), and created two very cool holes. 

They have created some really neat greens out there.  We walked onto the first green and I did indeed feel like I was standing on a green at Chicago Golf.  Most of the greens I saw had distinct plateaus and/or pinnable areas that, when combined with the hazards and wind, should make for interesting repeat play.

There is evidence of Eden, Double Plateau, Leven, Alps/Punchbowl, Maiden and other templates.  No Redan (although two of the par-3s have redan-ish qualities) and no Biarritz.

Although there is inspiration being drawn from CGC in particular, and MacRaynor in general, this isn't a replica course.  There is originality and creativity at work as well, including on a par-3 that Justin contributed to heavily.  MacRaynor fans will get a healthy dose of the style they love, and this course will be a thing of its own. 

The pace of progress is quick as I understand it, and it is fascinating to hear about the decision making dynamic among the involved owner, Dana Fry, Warren Henderson, the shapers (Justin, Jimmy Klinesmith and Derek Dirksen), Superintendent Jim Bluck, ABS Super Ryan Williams, and their other contractors.  That is quite a few cooks in the kitchen, but from what I can see on the ground, they are making it work really well.

The question at this point is, can they bring this project home as strongly as they have progressed to date?  If so, oh boy.  This is a going to be a special golf course.  I will be there early and often to whip around it and try to unlock its secrets.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 10:42:17 AM by Jason Way »
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2017, 12:58:42 PM »
One final thought comes to mind as I mull over what I saw yesterday: Dana and the team have done a great job of routing the course for a variety of hole directions.  This stood out to me because of the recent discussion of Firestone's back and forth, parallel routing. 

From what I can recall, AB South does not have two consecutive holes running in the same direction and quite a few holes run at 45, 90 and 135 degree angles to one another.  There is not much doubling back.  The openness of the site (only two trees) and gentle topography allow for freedom to create this variety, and kudos to them for taking advantage.

When the wind blows out there, which it will almost every day, players are going to have to think hard about lines on every shot.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Howard Riefs

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2017, 03:07:35 PM »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Tim Gavrich

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2017, 04:29:50 PM »
I think this is an awesome idea, looks awesome and will hopefully prove to be a valuable addition to the ever-stronger public-accessible golf offerings out there. That Macdonald/Raynor school of architecture is hard for the non-connected to find and engage with, so this is a good development.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Scott Weersing

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2017, 10:52:55 AM »
Hmm square greens. There are also square greens at Brackenridge Park, http://www.sanantoniomag.com/September-2016/Brackenridge-Park-Golf-Course-Turns-100/


So what is the connection between Old Brack and Chicago Golf Club?

Howard Riefs

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2017, 11:39:14 AM »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

PCCraig

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2017, 08:41:14 PM »
This can't be serious?


He has seen a lot of Tom Doak and Gil Hanse stuff that he likes, because he’s a well-traveled guy. But he tended to believe a lot of the courses were looking alike, and he wanted to do something that was really different.


A MacRaynor knock off course is considered "really different?"


Is this course the definition of a dumb blonde? The good looks of a Raynor course but with the strategic interest of a Dana Fry design... yuck.
H.P.S.

Rees Milikin

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2017, 09:55:49 PM »
This can't be serious?


He has seen a lot of Tom Doak and Gil Hanse stuff that he likes, because he’s a well-traveled guy. But he tended to believe a lot of the courses were looking alike, and he wanted to do something that was really different.


A MacRaynor knock off course is considered "really different?"


Is this course the definition of a dumb blonde? The good looks of a Raynor course but with the strategic interest of a Dana Fry design... yuck.


What's the strategy of most Dana Fry courses?  I've only played Erin Hills once, so I am fairly unfamiliar with his normal strategic design approach.

Nigel Islam

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Re: I was told Arcadia Bluffs has purchased land for second course
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2017, 11:09:41 PM »
It's quite surprising there are not going to be any templates.