[Thomas Dai]

Central fairway bunkers have been discussed herein a few times.
I can't though find a discussion about the use of the front-centre greenside bunker, ie one that sits smack-bang in front of the middle of a green and snuggles up close to the putting surface, particularly if the green has no other bunkering surrounding it.
Good feature? Bad feature? Okay feature if not overused? Best used where conditions are firm or soft?
Good examples. Bad examples.
Thoughts.
atb

[BCrosby]

Tom Simpson called the center/front greenside bunker at the 3rd at Woking one of the best bunkers in golf.  He called it a "governing bunker" meant in the sense that a single bunker at the green governs how you play the hole from the tee.


The 3rd at Woking is an elegantly simple, great hole.


Bob

[Brian Finn]

Can be a terrific feature.  C&C are particularly skilled at using it.  Best example is probably #8 at Sand Hills.

They also did a very cool one on a par 5 at the Notre Dame Warren Course (5th hole maybe).  I believe it is their version of a lion's mouth bunker.

[Adam Lawrence]

Yes, Bill likes the Lion's Mouth a lot, he seems to put one on almost every course he does.


I also really like the ones on the fifth at Chambers Bay, and on the second at Wolf Point. The latter has a fantastic green that makes putts from either side of the bunker extremely fun and interesting.


I was in Sweden last week with the architect Christian Lundin looking at a couple of his projects. He has a Lion's Mouth on the seventh hole at Skovde, about 150km north east of Gothenburg, and seeing it set me to thinking about the feature. I think it's brilliant; it basically creates a situation where (so long as there is adequate fairway width) the hole will always be strongly strategic.


But like anything, it can be overdone.

[Jon Wiggett]

I suppose the obvious example is the Road Hole Bunker at TOC but I would put forward the 18th at Leuk in Switzerland. The bunker is a deep-ish pot bunker with the green left and right being lower levels and the area behind the bunker on this shallow green being slightly raised. If the pin is on either side of the bunker then the only easy approach is from the same half of the fairway but if it is behind the bunker the player must decide to play to the edge of the fairway to leave a shot at the flag or accept a two putt par. The fairway is very generous and the hole is about 350 yards.


Jon

[Tom_Doak]

I personally don't like the front-center fairway bunker.  Left-center or right-center, ok; dead center is just too symmetric and unnatural for my tastes.


I do love the 3rd at Woking, but the green there is significantly angled to the line of play, so I don't think that counts.  The 8th at Pacific Dunes is my version of that green.

[Clyde Johnson]

It's not bunker (though I do wonder if it once was?), but I do like the grassy hollow at the front of the Old Course's 13th (the original "Lions"?)...


Part of the appeal is because it is maintained as rough, and not sand - it becomes almost inconsequential in your mind, until you inevitably find it, steering clear of death on the right and/or sneaky elevation change pulls you up half a club short. The recovery is quite fun, and can be pretty varied if it hangs up on one of the flanking banks. 


But as Tom alludes, its position is rarely dead centre, especially when you consider the range of hole locations, and the whole host of other features that it combines with to dictate the line of play.

[Matt_Cohn]

I think they're okay, not my favorite, but one thing I do like about them — they flip the normal strategy script a bit. Usually if the hole is cut left, you want to be on the right side, and vice versa. With a "lions-mouth" type bunker, you actually want to be on the same side of the fairway as the hole location.


It's not much, but it's something!

[Eric LeFante]

I think they're okay, not my favorite, but one thing I do like about them — they flip the normal strategy script a bit. Usually if the hole is cut left, you want to be on the right side, and vice versa. With a "lions-mouth" type bunker, you actually want to be on the same side of the fairway as the hole location.


It's not much, but it's something!

Great point

[Ian Mackenzie]

Warning: amateur opinion forthcoming....;-)...:


In general, I do not like that feature as it removes the "ground game" as an approach shot to the green.


However, one or two holes per 18 - especially short holes or par 3s, can be "tolerated".


The 9th at Dunes Club is a good example.

[Tim Passalacqua]

A lions mouth is one of my favorite green/bunker schemes in golf.  Everyday you are aiming to a different side of the fairway to get an angle, depending on the pin.  Also, I think it's something that could be utilized to add a ton of interest across a flat piece of land.  I love the lions mouth at Streamsong Red and Meadowbrook.

[Wade Whitehead]

Maybe one or two of the George Cup guys will post a photo of the lion's mouth on #2 at Ballyhack this weekend.  It's been redone since the course opened but is still the only greenside bunker on the hole.

WW

[Matthew Mollica]

I like them, and always think of Rustic Canyon 13 and Riviera 1 as two good examples.

[Pete Lavallee]

The 3rd at LACC's North Course is a great example; the green is shaped like a tooth with two lobes on either side. A great feature when competitors have but a wedge in hand on the 393 yard hole.

[George Myers]

A little more banal example, but I like the Lion's Mouth that Greg Martin installed at Wilmette number 3, a long par 4.
Ground game is still possible as the green is much wider than it is deep.

Dave Esler put in a small version in his redo of Mt Prospect's par 3 7th hole.

I find one per 18 to be acceptable.

[Jon Cavalier]

My favorite of these is the Lion's Mouth bunker on the 16th at Country Club of Charleston:







The 8th at Sand Hills also has a good one:





As someone noted above, the 3rd at LACC North employs a version of this hazard:





The central bunker on the 1st at Riviera is huge:

[Joe Zucker]

A little more banal example, but I like the Lion's Mouth that Greg Martin installed at Wilmette number 3, a long par 4.
Ground game is still possible as the green is much wider than it is deep.

Dave Esler put in a small version in his redo of Mt Prospect's par 3 7th hole.

I find one per 18 to be acceptable.

The 3rd at Wilmette is a tough hole with that bunker.  If I remember correctly, the surface of the green is elevated making the surface and bottom of the flag stick semi blind from parts of the fairway.


Another one might by the 16th at Royal Melbourne East.  If the pin is in the front, the large fronting bunker eats far enough into the green that a putt to the hole is impossible if you're on the opposite half.

[BCowan]

A lions mouth is one of my favorite green/bunker schemes in golf.  Everyday you are aiming to a different side of the fairway to get an angle, depending on the pin.  Also, I think it's something that could be utilized to add a ton of interest across a flat piece of land.  I love the lions mouth at Streamsong Red and Meadowbrook.

Tim,

   Not sure if these photos are good representation of Meadowbrook's, but I'll post them anyway. 

[Tim Passalacqua]

A lions mouth is one of my favorite green/bunker schemes in golf.  Everyday you are aiming to a different side of the fairway to get an angle, depending on the pin.  Also, I think it's something that could be utilized to add a ton of interest across a flat piece of land.  I love the lions mouth at Streamsong Red and Meadowbrook.

Tim,

   Not sure if these photos are good representation of Meadowbrook's, but I'll post them anyway. 

Looks great to me!!!!

[Tim Martin]

Matt Dusenberry built a cool one on # 17 at Keney Park. It is a principle's nose that sits just in front of a two tiered green and it's as close to the putting surface as any rendition I've seen. There are plenty of pinnable spots on the large green where angle of approach is the key factor in determining whether it functions as a lion's mouth. If you hit it on the wrong tier of the green a two putt is a  trophy ball and most likely instigated by the player's instinct to play away from the "Nose".

[Sean_A]

I like the Meadowbrook example because hole locations can be bunker high rather than simply behind the bunker.  Was that the orginal idea at Charleston?  It doesn't seem like the slope of the lion's legs allow for hole locations.  I am almost always going to buy into the concept of centreline bunkering because its the most efficient way to use sand with the greatest impact on play.  The further sand is from the centre of play the more likely additonal sand will be seen as important.

Ciao

[JJShanley]

It gave me the fear each time.  16 has another one, I suppose.

Can be a terrific feature.  C&C are particularly skilled at using it.  Best example is probably #8 at Sand Hills.

They also did a very cool one on a par 5 at the Notre Dame Warren Course (5th hole maybe).  I believe it is their version of a lion's mouth bunker.

[Jon Cavalier]

I like the Meadowbrook example because hole locations can be bunker high rather than simply behind the bunker.  Was that the orginal idea at Charleston?  It doesn't seem like the slope of the lion's legs allow for hole locations.  I am almost always going to buy into the concept of centreline bunkering because its the most efficient way to use sand with the greatest impact on play.  The further sand is from the centre of play the more likely additonal sand will be seen as important.

Ciao

The 16th at CC Charleston is certainly pinnacle on the “shoulders” and the upper part of the “arms,” though I could see it getting dicier the farther down toward the “paws” you go with the hole.

[George Myers]

A little more banal example, but I like the Lion's Mouth that Greg Martin installed at Wilmette number 3, a long par 4.
Ground game is still possible as the green is much wider than it is deep.

Dave Esler put in a small version in his redo of Mt Prospect's par 3 7th hole.

I find one per 18 to be acceptable.

The 3rd at Wilmette is a tough hole with that bunker.  If I remember correctly, the surface of the green is elevated making the surface and bottom of the flag stick semi blind from parts of the fairway.


Another one might by the 16th at Royal Melbourne East.  If the pin is in the front, the large fronting bunker eats far enough into the green that a putt to the hole is impossible if you're on the opposite half.

Yes, your recollection of the 3rd at Wilmette is correct, the entire green is elevated.

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