[Cristian]

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/photo/2017/08/28/top-100-golf-courses-world-2017


Tara Iti 29! Highest New entry ever, congrats to Tom Doak and team.

[Tom_Doak]

Tara Iti 29! Highest New entry ever, congrats to Tom Doak and team.

Thanks Cristian!


P.S.  I am pretty sure it is not the highest new entry ever ... the copy says "one of the highest".  I'm pretty sure Pacific Dunes debuted in the top 20, and there may have been others, as well.

[David Davis]

Congrats Tom and team.


Whether you think it's your best (or even one of your strongest) routings, it's definitely an amazing storybook location. Absolutely surreal.


On top of that you don't have to deal with any bugs that I could see, Barnbougle also amazing but the bugs were almost unbearable in the time of year I was there. Absolutely non at Tara Iti a few days later.


Sometimes it's the little things...


I for one could play Tara Iti for the rest of my life. So when they offer me room & board (near the beach) and that course ranger position with all you can play golf I will drop out of society and be on my way.

[Jason Topp]

Is this list the best list?   


The only two that stand out to me as potentially strange are Ellerston and Trump International.  I have not played either course but the photo tours do not suggest to me that either course merits consideration for top 100 in the World.


None of the others stand out to me as way off base.

[Rees Milikin]

What's a guy gotta do to get on Ayodhya Links, looks stunning!

[PCCraig]

According to this link, ( http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2017/08/30/top-100-courses-us-world-rankings-2017-18-barely-missed ) , White Bear Yacht Club just missed the Top 100 at #103. A bummer but at least it had enough votes to qualify this time (only 9 votes last cycle). But it's still in good company with Lawsonia, Crooked Stick, and Kingsley all on the same bubble.

[David Davis]

Is this list the best list?   


The only two that stand out to me as potentially strange are Ellerston and Trump International.  I have not played either course but the photo tours do not suggest to me that either course merits consideration for top 100 in the World.


None of the others stand out to me as way off base.

Definitely a couple subjective questions there Jason. I have played both Ellerston and Trump. I have more critique on Trump's course than Ellerston. However, one thing it is is spectacular. My main critique would be the repetition of the theme of raised tee box, low fairway between towering dunes and raised green. My count was that this happened 12 times. Still it was clearly designed to be spectacular, and pretty tough when the wind is up and especially from the back tees. It is most certainly not among the weaker entries in the list.


Ellerston on the other hand is awesome and spectacular. 18 holes that are excellent but much like Sand Hills they had enough space for 100 courses there. The objective from Mr. Packer was to make it hard. That was achieved and while hard does not equal = great. The holes are all excellent and the course is perfectly manicured given no-one plays there. My one complaint would be that it's not reasonably walkable as the holes are quite far apart and I walk everything, but the days I played it was like 95-100 degrees each day so walking was like risking heat stroke as it's a very hilly property as well. Had it been 70 or 80 degrees I would of tried to walk it. Does it belong? IMO yes it's awesome but only if you want courses that next to no-one can play on the list.

[Jim Nugent]

Note to GM editors:  the copy for The European Club, ranked 97, reads "From the tips, the world's 86th ranked course is a rugged test..." 

Remnant from old rankings? 

[MClutterbuck]

Is this list the best list?   


The only two that stand out to me as potentially strange are Ellerston and Trump International.  I have not played either course but the photo tours do not suggest to me that either course merits consideration for top 100 in the World.


None of the others stand out to me as way off base.

The handful of people I know that have played Ellerston tell me it is spectacularly good and belongs way up there.


I can not state categorically that Teeth of the Dog does not belong in the Top 100, but all of the courses I have played and rank below it in the Top 100 are far better, in my opinion. There are also better courses not ranked in the Top 100, in my opinion. I would choose a Gullane #1 or an Indian Creek over Teeth of the Dog 8-2.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Are the Top 100 U.S. being listed tomorrow, or am I missing the link somewhere?

[Jim Franklin]

According to this link, ( http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2017/08/30/top-100-courses-us-world-rankings-2017-18-barely-missed ) , White Bear Yacht Club just missed the Top 100 at #103. A bummer but at least it had enough votes to qualify this time (only 9 votes last cycle). But it's still in good company with Lawsonia, Crooked Stick, and Kingsley all on the same bubble.

WBYC is definitely a Top 100 course. I wonder if Spring Hill made it on the GM list??

[Sean Leary]

According to this link, ( http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2017/08/30/top-100-courses-us-world-rankings-2017-18-barely-missed ) , White Bear Yacht Club just missed the Top 100 at #103. A bummer but at least it had enough votes to qualify this time (only 9 votes last cycle). But it's still in good company with Lawsonia, Crooked Stick, and Kingsley all on the same bubble.

Gamble Sands too. Glad to see that.

[Matthew Mollica]

There's no way on God's green earth Ellerston is a superior course to Lost Farm.

[Thomas Dai]

Well done for Tara Iti Tom and team.
Two in for POTUS.
2nd and 3rd (?) 'best' in NE Scotland get in but not the 1st.
2nd (?) 'best' in Wales included but not the 1st.
Not seen much of Ellerston but found this on YouTube - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvXm61eepBM
Atb

[Cristian]

Tara Iti 29! Highest New entry ever, congrats to Tom Doak and team.

Thanks Cristian!


P.S.  I am pretty sure it is not the highest new entry ever ... the copy says "one of the highest".  I'm pretty sure Pacific Dunes debuted in the top 20, and there may have been others, as well.

I stand corrected.....still 29? Not bad....

[RichMacafee]

It's strange that the photo used for Kingston Heath is of the 19th hole, which had the worst vegetation on the course

.... oh, and the hole no longer exists!

[David_Elvins]

There's no way on God's green earth Ellerston is a superior course to Lost Farm.

Lost Farm probably suffers from being compared to the Doak course next door.  Wonder where Ellerston would rank if Doak built a second course there?  I think the flaws of Ellerston would stand out a lot more.


Having said that, Pacific Dunes highlights what an average course Bandon Dunes is but Bandon Dunes still rates stupidly high.


I thimk i just find this list confusing. Its all over the place.

[John Kavanaugh]

Yeah, Doak's course next to Victoria National is a huge distraction. Can't tell you how many times I have heard guests whisper under their breath..."I should have played the Doak". Hurtful.

[John Kirk]

I'll take a run at a selection I'm not comfortable with.

California GC of San Francisco is ranked #73.  That's a bit high.  Holes 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 17 traverse up and down the same slope in a somewhat monotonous fashion.  The 12th hole is the only visually memorable hole on the course.  Pasatiempo is clearly better, with several holes more distinctive (2, 3, 11, 14, 16) than any hole at the Cal Club, except the 12th.  Furthermore, it's a bad weather site, the same weather conditions that made Candlestick Park such a tough baseball park.  It's also a bit too hilly for my liking.  With that said, the course is excellent, especially the front nine.  However, I consider Pasatiempo and Old Macdonald better, and Bandon Trails much better.  I would enjoy a reasoned argument for the Cal Club belonging on this list.

While I'm at it, I'll reiterate my comment that #25 San Francisco GC has ten long holes that are oriented east to west, or west to east.  They are a well varied group, but there are lots of parallel long holes, the primary criticism of Firestone GC's tournament course.   

Just making conversation.

 

[Tom_Doak]

Yeah, Doak's course next to Victoria National is a huge distraction. Can't tell you how many times I have heard guests whisper under their breath..."I should have played the Doak". Hurtful.

Can't win 'em all.  Building Sebonack has not taken National and Shinnecock down a peg, either.  But I do have some wins in my column, too.

[John Kavanaugh]

Congrats. A great day for you...and Joe too!!!

[Mike_Clayton]

MattM


If Elleston was at Barnbougle and Lost Farm was a mysterious course far from anywhere that no one could play - excepting for a few raters and friends of the owner - they would be around the other way.

[Niall C]

I'll take a run at a selection I'm not comfortable with.

California GC of San Francisco is ranked #73.  That's a bit high.  Holes 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 17 traverse up and down the same slope in a somewhat monotonous fashion.  The 12th hole is the only visually memorable hole on the course.  Pasatiempo is clearly better, with several holes more distinctive (2, 3, 11, 14, 16) than any hole at the Cal Club, except the 12th.  Furthermore, it's a bad weather site, the same weather conditions that made Candlestick Park such a tough baseball park.  It's also a bit too hilly for my liking.  With that said, the course is excellent, especially the front nine.  However, I consider Pasatiempo and Old Macdonald better, and Bandon Trails much better.  I would enjoy a reasoned argument for the Cal Club belonging on this list.

While I'm at it, I'll reiterate my comment that #25 San Francisco GC has ten long holes that are oriented east to west, or west to east.  They are a well varied group, but there are lots of parallel long holes, the primary criticism of Firestone GC's tournament course.   

Just making conversation.

John
 
Remarkably, this Brit can actually join in a sensible conversation regarding a couple of US courses. I was fortunate to  play both Cal Club and Pasatiempo last year and largely agree with your comments.
 
I absolutely loved the Cal Club and was a quarter turn of the ball from having a hole in one at the 12^th so as biased as I am about that hole I would also say it is clearly one of the highlights at Cal Club although there were other holes which I possibly liked more. It is a course however where I think the overall feel of the place counts for more than any individual design elements.
 
Pasatiempo on the other hand is chock-full of brilliant design elements (IMO) but lacks something overall in terms of the feel of the place. To my mind the design has been compromised by the maintenance regime with the collar of rough round the greens, the cart paths and the line of trees (belatedly) planted to separate some of the holes, and the narrowing of the 1^st to create the practice range.
 
All things being equal there would be no question in my mind which would be the better course, however as things stand the question is do you prefer a very good design that has been buffed to the max, or do you prefer an even better design that has seen better days. I tend to lean towards the latter and would give Pasatiempo the nod.
 
Niall

[David Davis]

MattM


If Elleston was at Barnbougle and Lost Farm was a mysterious course far from anywhere that no one could play - excepting for a few raters and friends of the owner - they would be around the other way.

Mike and Matt,


Really interesting that you guys think this way about those two courses. I absolutely loved Barnbougle Dunes and found the routing to be excellent but as good as it is Lost Farm was a big disappointment compared to my expectations of it being a Top 100 listed course. Let's face it they are more than equally in the middle of nowhere for most of the world (you lucky group down under being the exception). As you say access is a big downer in terms of Ellerston as most people never get to see it. Maybe for this reason it should not be considered at all but that's not really for me to decide and given I assume you've both played it as well we may be in a similar boat.


IMO suggesting Lost Farm is better or even near as good as Ellerston is kind of like saying Torrey Pines is as good as LACC. I don't have Lost Farm anywhere near my personal Top 100 favorites (which doesn't really mean anything or prove anything) and it's way down the list of C&C courses that I have seen, several of which don't make the Top 100 list at all. Sure it's still a must play and a great little brother course to Barnbougle but a major disappointment for me as far as it compares to C&C's growing list of wonderful work.


Obviously they are just all opinions but I know that there is a certain despise of Ellerston from much of the Aussie crowd for reasons I've only heard rumored. Being fair only to the architect, Mr. Harrison, the course has 18 holes that I don't think you can miss without truly missing something special.

[Mike Sweeney]

Congrats. A great day for you...and Joe too!!!

The list made me think the "Tom Fazio Era" is dead now. Obviously on this site, that could be viewed as a good thing, but it does highlight the various biases of each list. I can't argue that Galloway National (my favorite Fazio played) belongs on the list, but it makes me think I need to see another Fazio or two.


It has actually peaked my interest in seeing Victoria National now, can I get an invite?

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