Fun to play

[Ted Sturges]

Why isn't "fun to play" a legitimate category for rating golf courses?   I mean...isn't that why we play the game?...to have fun?

-I played 36 holes at Royal Dornoch one day and seriously considered a 3rd 18...because it's so much fun to play there.

-I took a good friend from out of state (I live in Indiana) to play Victoria National in southern Indiana years ago and planned on playing 36 that day.  At lunch among the members, he whispered to me "Please don't make me go back out there".  We made excuses for our departure, drove to French Lick and had a blast playing the Ross course there....because it was so much more fun to play there.

-Every time I take someone to Yeamans Hall Club, we play 18 in the morning, have lunch, and we literally sprint to the 1st tee for our second 18...because it is so much fun to play there.

-A friend of mine from Indiana is a member at Royal Dornoch and he said to me this summer that he felt Dornoch was the best course in the world.  His reasoning?....because he has never played a course of that quality (a "Doak 10") that was more fun to play.   Kind of hard to argue against that.

How much significance do you all assign to the "fun factor" of the courses you rate?

-TS

[jeffwarne]

I'm amazed it's not the ONLY criteria.....


I can't tell you how many people tell that NGLA is more fun but Shinnecock the better course.
Never understand that

[Matthew Petersen]

The more I play, the more it's the only concern that matters to me.

[Thomas Dai]

Unless your in the business golf ought to be an enjoyable leisure pastime.
And if your chosen leisure pastime isn't enjoyable, isn't fun, well go find one that is.
Atb

[JESII]

Agreed...but we all have different definitions of fun. Ted laid it out perfect in the opener comparing Dornoch to Victoria...at least by their reputations. I've played Shinnecock several times but never NGLA. I'm sure it's a blast, but so is SH IMO. Be curious to understand the difference.


Fun is the most important characteristic but sometimes facing a challenge is fun...

[jeffwarne]

Agreed...but we all have different definitions of fun. Ted laid it out perfect in the opener comparing Dornoch to Victoria...at least by their reputations. I've played Shinnecock several times but never NGLA. I'm sure it's a blast, but so is SH IMO. Be curious to understand the difference.


Fun is the most important characteristic but sometimes facing a challenge is fun...

Jim,
There is no hole at Shinnecock as fun as 1 or 2 at NGLA. or 3 or 4 for that matter..or 6 or 7....or  16 or 17...
I could go on

[JESII]

I'll take your word for it

[Sean_A]

Isn't fun a legitimate category for rating courses?  They call it other stuff like walk in the park, but we know what that is code for. I will say that I really like good awkward holes even of they aren't exactly fun.  A bit of head scratchin' goes a long way, but it can be a fine line between good awkward and silly or a slog....and that fine line could be down to how one feels on the day.

Ted

Of my top 20 favourites...Dornoch is the least fun to play.

Ciao 

[Ryan Coles]

Portrush and RCD for example are undeniably great courses. How much fun are they to play every week? Too difficult, week in week out I would say. I'd say more fun would be had at Brora on a regular basis. Is Brora therefore the better course?

[Jay Mickle]

Fun to play equals Tobacco Road. You can be hero or goat on almost any hole. A fine drive to the cleavage on one can make your day. Take on the waste area on 4 and the quarry on 11, find your ball all the way down the hill on 7, land near the pin in the Dell on 13, hit the narrow green next to the lake on 14, land in the Fairway on 18 with a view of the green. Just a few of the feel-good shots on one of the most fun courses you can play.

[Mike Sweeney]

How much significance do you all assign to the "fun factor" of the courses you rate?

-TS

Next week, the Maine journey continues at:


http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/cape-arundel-golf-club/


There will be no Golf Digest raters for at least 75 miles

[John Kavanaugh]

Every since I was a child I have had the most fun when I put myself in danger. A difficult golf shot is the least best dangerous thing I got left. I was probably one of those members at Victoria smiling as another casualty at the bar looked for his sippy cup.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Fun comes in many guises.


It has become code for quirky, different, shorter and sporty a little too easily.


That is far too narrow.

[Jon Wiggett]

Portrush and RCD for example are undeniably great courses. How much fun are they to play every week? Too difficult, week in week out I would say. I'd say more fun would be had at Brora on a regular basis. Is Brora therefore the better course?

Ryan,


I think it depends what your looking for but I would suggest if it is fun, leisure golf then Brora is the better choice.


Sean,


fun is certainly something you should consider and it says a lot about the mentality of course rating that it is not usually a factor. After all, in the golf club bar conversations between real golfers the phrase 'you should go and play there it is real fun' is heard in 99% of such conversation where as most of what the ratings are based on are rarely mentioned.

I agree with you on the head scratching holes. Every course should have a couple.
 
Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Portrush and RCD for example are undeniably great courses. How much fun are they to play every week? Too difficult, week in week out I would say.

Good point Ryan. The challenge of playing a difficult, high profile course every now and then can certainly be fun but the fun element can disappear with regular play........especially if rounds are regularly taking 5 hrs or thereabouts and there's waiting on every damn shot (and it's cold and windy and rainy as well).


Nice then that some premier clubs have the opportunity/money/foresight to have second courses, whether they be 9-holes, 18-holes, to a perhaps lessor standard or even of the same or near same standard as the 'usual suspect'.

atb

[Sean_A]

Jon

Traditionally, shot values and difficulty are used to determine greatness and to a degree this is still the case.  I hear people in the bar talk in terms of difficulty=good.  To a point I think they are right because it is good to at least try to see courses from the eyes of others.  It seems distance is the #1 divider between fun and difficult.  I can readily see how a guy who carries a driver 275 (with some accuracy...I am not talking about the 14 capper who is all over the yard) will not be terribly enchanted with courses that are 6000 yards.  The course will either play too short or if not, feel tricked up.  Sure, there are guys who can play with an open mind about short=fun, but not too many I would suggest.  I think this mindset may be changing now that these guys realize that 275 is drop in the bucket for the best players.  This is all relative, but the courses are not....they are absolute.  It was interesting to play with a pro recently at Sunningdale.  He hit the ball forever and simply over-powered holes with length as the main defense.  For instance, 10 was driver wedge while after a good drive I was hitting 2 hybrid...we played the same tees.  I mention this hit home that incrasing length to courses is not the answer...reducing par and more creative design will go much further to challenging these good players. To me, more creative design is often really about making a course fun to play.

Ciao   

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder if to the guys we see on TV playing courses of around 7,500 feel they're playing 'tricked-up' golf?
Given their power 7,500 yds isn't exactly long.
Okay they're playing for the mortgage so there's a slightly different mental aspect to us amateur 'funsters' but 7,500 yds for them is, as I suggested on a recent thread* the equivalent of 5,000 yds for a 200 yd driver and 6,250 yds for a 250 yd driver.
Would you feel that a course of such 'equivalent' lengths was a 'tricked-up' one if you were asked play it? Would you get bored playing an 'equivalent' length course 4 days in a row plus a practice/pro-am round every week?


atb


* - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64908.0.html

[David_Madison]

It's my most important measure when I'm rating courses, except that I add something to it. I call it "enduring interest", how fun and interesting a course will be with repeated plays, and from different tees and different cups under the typical variety of playing conditions one might expect there. The best courses reveal new elements, strategies, shot-making requirements and opportunities every time I might play them. I think of it like an onion, where every time I peel a layer away I'd get something new and interesting. Mid-Pines, Eastward Ho, Tobacco Road, Sandhills, the courses at Bandon Dunes and so on come immediately to mind. Long, hard slogs, even if deemed "great" tournament venues, rarely do.

[Steve Lang]

   always has been, hope golf always will be fun, if not, then see ya later, and I never saw a sucker pin I didn't like!

[Ally Mcintosh]

How about someone giving me a list of 5 great courses that are fun and 5 great courses that are not fun?


So I can understand the stereotype.


I'm a member at a course (Portmarnock) that is long and therefore gets stereotyped as difficult. It often gets compared to a course up the road (The Island) which is quirky and therefore gets stereotyped as fun.


In reality, You lose less balls at Portmarnock, the fairways are wider, you can bounce the ball in easier, the holes have more inherent strategy and the turf is better. All in all, it is an easier course.


I love them both but I have more fun at Portmarnock. It beats you up less.

[Steve Lang]

...

In reality, You lose less balls at Portmarnock, the fairways are wider, you can bounce the ball in easier, the holes have more inherent strategy and the turf is better. All in all, it is an easier course.


I love them both but I have more fun at Portmarnock. It beats you up less.

So less masochism = more fun?

[Jim Franklin]

How much significance do you all assign to the "fun factor" of the courses you rate?

-TS

Next week, the Maine journey continues at:


http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/cape-arundel-golf-club/


There will be no Golf Digest raters for at least 75 miles

Cape Arundel was a blast. And I played it with another Golf Digest panelist so be careful what you wish for.

[Sean_A]

Ally

You are presented a false dichotomy.  I would characterize the situation as courses which are more fun than others.  So with that in mind

Muirfield
Lytham
Troon
Carnoustie
Pinehurst


Sandwich
North Berwick
Lahinch
TOC
Prestwick

You figure out which group I consider more fun. 

Ciao

[Jim Franklin]

I'm amazed it's not the ONLY criteria.....


I can't tell you how many people tell that NGLA is more fun but Shinnecock the better course.
Never understand that

NGLA is more fun but Shinnecock is a better championship test. That's how I phrase it. Both are in my top 5 favorites.

[A.G._Crockett]

Fun to play equals Tobacco Road. You can be hero or goat on almost any hole. A fine drive to the cleavage on one can make your day. Take on the waste area on 4 and the quarry on 11, find your ball all the way down the hill on 7, land near the pin in the Dell on 13, hit the narrow green next to the lake on 14, land in the Fairway on 18 with a view of the green. Just a few of the feel-good shots on one of the most fun courses you can play.

And therein lies the problem with "fun".  Like you, I just love Tobacco Road; I laugh my way around the course every time I play it.  Two weeks ago, I played in a tournament there; I had a yardage book, GPS watch, rangefinder, and GPS on my iphone, and still wasn't ever quite sure what to do on many shots.  It was a blast!

But a lot of people, some really good golfers really don't like The Road at all, and I get that, too.  "Fun" is subjective, and the variations are so huge person to person that there is no way to standardize it as we do with the other categories of course rating.  And I'm not at all sure that even you or I would find The Road to be nearly as much fun if we played it more regularly?

Fun for me this time of year is a course that hasn't let the rough get away from them; playing out of two inch bermuda rough all day just isn't any fun.  It's fun to play on a course where the greens are running at Tour speeds ONCE IN AWHILE; it would be anything but fun to do that three or four times a week.  And so on...