Limekiln GC, Horsham, PA sold...course now " Permanently Closed"

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Limekiln GC, a daily fee course in the Philly 'burbs owned by baseball Hall of Famer , the late Robin Roberts and former Phillies pitcher and his team mate Curt Simmons, is a very popular 27 holer.

www.limegolf.com


Frequently mentioned here but never had a thread of its own.


Sold to a developer with plans for an "active adult" community . Here are the development plans. The project may be tied up in a zoning battle as current zoning is for 2 acre lots.


http://www.horsham.org/docview.aspx?docid=26259


If plans are approved, public golf in the area will take another hit as Horsham Valley GC , 5 minutes away, was sold a few years and now is a McMansion development.

[MCirba]

Wow, I used to play Limekiln quite a bit when I used to live in Horsham and Chalfont.   With 27 holes there was opportunity to get in a quick nine in the morning or after work, even with considerable league play.

It was originally designed by Alec Duncan, who was the long time pro at Philly Cricket, with another nine added years later by Al Janis, and then a lot of greens were rebuilt later by Jim Blaukovitch.   Nothing great, but always an enjoyable round.

I do hope they keep the Blue Nine, but given that's where the access road currently is I would be surprised.   

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Darn, that's a shame. I haven't played Limekiln in my nearly five years in the Philly, but it sounds like I should make the 15-minute drive soon before it's gone!

As Steve said, this will be a hit to public golf in the area, especially for those looking for a decent value. A few of my neighbors play there regularly and will have to visit the few publics that are left in this part of the suburbs: Five Ponds (a pretty decent layout, and very popular / busy), Neshaminy Valley or Upper Dublin / Twining Valley.

Lulu is nearby, but only semi-private.

[Kyle Harris]

It's understandable, and I can't say I'm all that torn up about it. The attitude of "I've been here for five years but haven't played it..." is probably exactly why it's been sold. The "regulars" will go up the road to PineCrest or Five Ponds or Bucks Country Country Club - all of which I'd rather play than Limekiln.

But, as Mike Cirba said, there were a few good holes and it was a place I never turned down an invite to play with someone.

[Tim Fenchel]

I'm with Kyle on this one...but he was much nicer than I'll be.


Other than perhaps data that may hint at a trend in the industry...Limekiln isn't worth a mention on this forum.


Total snoozefest and a perfect example of a featureless, unthoughtful design with less than mediocre conditioning.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Regardless of what one thinks about the architecture or conditions at Limekiln, it was very popular at one time. I understand that they did more than 75,000 rounds in the early 2000s. Weekends were very busy and there were many workday after work leagues. As Mike said, a quick 9 before or after work was always possible. Price and convenience are key for the retail golfer. The Phillies connection helped too.   I have no idea about the amount of current play there since I moved away 5 years ago. 


Fairways in nearby Warrington (Par65)  is still open.


So far, no land development plans or zoning applications have been filed.

[MCirba]

I moved to Horsham in the late 1980s and at the time, the following public courses existed, making me believe that God had wanted me to play much more golf than I had been at the time.   

Hidden Springs (36)  (NLE - soon became redesigned 18-hole private Commonwealth National)
Horsham Valley (18) (NLE)
Limekiln (27) - (soon to be 9)
Twining Valley (18)
Neshaminy Valley (18)
Fairways  (18)

There are plenty of private options in the area.   

One bright spot as Kyle mentioned is that Five Ponds was created and that LuLu is now semi-private.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Ok the world will not remember the course when it goes away. Certainly it would not crack the top 1000 in the U.S. But kids in the area will no longer have a reasonable place to play at a reasonable price.

We need courses like this to help kids develop a love of the game and hopefully an interest in architecture. I know it did for me, they always looked the other way if you were trying to sneak in extra nine holes in without paying. Matt give me a call, let's go play all 27 some day soon.

ed

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Sounds good, Ed! Couldn't agree with you more on the growth of the game aspect.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Sounds good, Ed! Couldn't agree with you more on the growth of the game aspect.

we have to have avenues for these kids to get interested

[JJShanley]

Sounds good, Ed! Couldn't agree with you more on the growth of the game aspect.

we have to have avenues for these kids to get interested

I for one feel very grateful for the existence of Brunstfield Links in Edinburgh.  It kept me excited as a kid before I could play a conventional course. 

[Joe Bausch]

Photos of all 27 holes at Limekiln:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Limekiln/index.html

[Kyle Harris]

When you keep looking the other way while your customers steal golf, you eventually lose enough money to be up for sale.


There are dozens of other public, low price, options within 30 miles of Limekiln.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@Kyle


Or, in this case, when the owner decides to retire and gets a good price for the business/land. HHHorsham Valley cashed out for that reason. I'm surprised Fairways and Neshaminy Valley are still open. They are privately owned and I'm sure developers have made offers. Five Ponds and Twining Valley are munis and may be the last ones standing nearby. Bucks County and Pinecrest will benefit.

[Mike_Trenham]

Looking at the plans, I think posters on here are mistaken that 9 holes will remain, those are catch basins on the plans.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@ Mike
It seems that you are correct in that the plan calls for 90 acres of open space, not golf. Prior rumored plans had 9 holes. In any event, a zoning change is needed for for the "active adult" plan and, so far, nothing has been filed with Horsham.

[Kyle Harris]

@Kyle


Or, in this case, when the owner decides to retire and gets a good price for the business. HHHorsham Valley cashed out for that reason. I'm surprised Fairways and Neshaminy Valley are still open. They are privately owned and I'm sure developers have made offers. Five Ponds and Twining Valley are munis and may be the last ones standing nearby. Bucks County and Pinecrest will benefit.

Perhaps, but as a going concern, the golf course clearly wasn't a viable option.

Amazing how quickly we forget Lederach and Makefield Highlands, both munis, and both in the same general area. Along with Middletown and Bensalem and...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The sale is contingent on zoning approval for the proposed "active adult" community.  From the Limekiln newsletter:


A quick update on the sale of the property.  The buyers are committed to their over 55 community, but things are going slowly with the needed Township approval.  This means that next golf season, 2018 is going to happen for sure.  It also means 2019 is a real possibility.  We are not in any hurry to sell the course.  We have to let the political system, do its thing.  I’d like to thank everyone who plays golf with us, for their understanding.  I have been in the unique position to have a successful business, as well as valuable piece of property.  For the first 20 years I’ve worked here, the golf business has been much more successful than the value of the property.  We’ve worked hard to make it that way, and we feel we still have a wonderful golf course.  Unfortunately, the golf business has declined, and property values have increased to the point where the value of the property, is now more than a successful golf course could ever be.  I’m pretty sure this sale, and the 55 and over community, will someday become a reality.  But until it does, we will continue to run the golf course, and keep it in the best shape we can.

[MCirba]

Thanks for the update Steve.

[MCirba]

Kyle,


30 miles might not seem like much but as you know that area is so heavily congested that it's very difficult and time-consuming to get between Montgomery and Bucks County in many areas. For instance, if I still lived in Horsham it isn't actually a very easy trick to get to Lederach  much less Makefield Highlands. Glad that they're there irregardless.

[Bret Lawrence]

I have never played this course before, but was surprised to learn Robin Roberts and Curt Simmons owned this golf course.  My grandfather, Jocko Thompson was also a hurler for the Whiz Kids and team mates of both Robin and Curt.  My cousins and I have several game balls from the late 40's and early 50's that were painted by Robin Roberts.  As it turns out, Roberts was a pretty good artist too!  My mother was born in 1951 and Robin painted a stork delivering a baby on the game ball my grandfather received shortly after she was born.


Bret

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Course will be open for this year. Zoning approval recently obtained:


http://horsham.municipalcms.com/pview.aspx?id=37989&catID=612

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The deal has closed and the course probably will close this year. The " 55+" RE market is booming. As ownership stated stated above:


Unfortunately, the golf business has declined, and property values have increased to the point where the value of the property, is now more than a successful golf course could ever be.

[MCirba]

Wow...a hugely congested area will become even more so.  Bummer.

I moved into that area from Delaware County in 1988.   There was a wealth of public course options and I looked at it as a sign from God that I should be playing more often.

Since then, the following have disappeared or are disappearing shortly;

Hidden Springs (36) - replaced by private Commonwealth National (and office park)
Horsham Valley (18)
Twining Valley (18)
Limekiln (27)

On the plus side, 18 holes were created in Warminster as the very fine Five Ponds Golf Course, and LuLu went public since the time I moved further north.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Wow...a hugely congested area will become even more so.  Bummer.

I moved into that area from Delaware County in 1988.   There was a wealth of public course options and I looked at it as a sign from God that I should be playing more often.

Since then, the following have disappeared or are disappearing shortly;

Hidden Springs (36) - replaced by private Commonwealth National (and office park)
Horsham Valley (18)
Twining Valley (18)
Limekiln (27)

On the plus side, 18 holes were created in Warminster as the very fine Five Ponds Golf Course, and LuLu went public since the time I moved further north.

All the haunts of my youth are going away. i guess i'll still try to sneak onto Mannys.