[Pete_Pittock]

Most recent from Google Earth.

They are certainly more up to date than Microsoft virtual earth.

[astavrides]

Did you like it?
Do you think it is/will be a top 100 public course?

[Pete_Pittock]

Astravides,
There are courses I love, courses I like, and so on down the line. Courses I love would be where I could play 36 for the rest of my life. For me there are about 10 worldwide, and it does not include my home course. The Silvies complex fits into my like category.
I do not know where it would appear in a list of public courses. As I said, I plan to play it again this year.


I would like to revise and extend my remarks.
It should appear in a top 100 public ranking, but if you look at magazine rankings it will not be a consensus pick.

[Tom_Doak]

Interesting to see the routing.  Completely different than The Loop ... he has a couple of series of back-and-forth holes so that the angle of approach to the green is only maybe 30 or 45 degrees different ... the only one like that on The Loop is the end green, #9.  I guess I could have done that once or twice for variety, but it would not have fit the shape of Forest Dunes' property very well.  Nice to see that the concept can be done in totally different ways.

[Garland Bayley]

       There was no map or yardage book when I played, but a yardage book is in the works. Garland has provided Google Earth images which I am incorporating, but I must note that the views I've checked do not have finished bunkers, but their placement seems to coincide with the darker spots. ...

Google Earth indicates the aerial view is from June of 2016. This is the first time I've seen it. The latest view used to be a view from 2013 with everything brown. You can use the history feature of Google Earth to look at that version too.

[Garland Bayley]

Interesting to see the routing.  Completely different than The Loop ... he has a couple of series of back-and-forth holes so that the angle of approach to the green is only maybe 30 or 45 degrees different ... the only one like that on The Loop is the end green, #9.  I guess I could have done that once or twice for variety, but it would not have fit the shape of Forest Dunes' property very well.  Nice to see that the concept can be done in totally different ways.

It seems the predominant pattern is the long holes get played in both directions, and the par 3 holes get hung off the side of some of the holes and don't get dual duty.

[Pete_Pittock]

                   I am guessing the topography is very different. Silvies runs through a lot of valley and along ridges. There is a large high meadow. After # 4 the next two hole continue up the valley. A level par 3 runs SW to a ridge top with the 8th tee above a 100' drop. Down valley 9, blind tee 10, blind tee 11 to the high point and the meadow through 15. 16-18 head back down to the hideaway.
                  The Craddock reverses the process until it gets to the green shared with Hankins 8. There it goes to a separate valley, with a 3-4-3 sequencing ending by Hankins  6 green/7 tee complex.
                  If the shared greens have a parent it is probably the 13th at Rustic Canyon.  On the two days I played the shared greens had the same location for both days which led to some creative play. I hope they get a different color for the flags.






 

[Pete_Pittock]

Interesting to see the routing.  Completely different than The Loop ... he has a couple of series of back-and-forth holes so that the angle of approach to the green is only maybe 30 or 45 degrees different ... the only one like that on The Loop is the end green, #9.  I guess I could have done that once or twice for variety, but it would not have fit the shape of Forest Dunes' property very well.  Nice to see that the concept can be done in totally different ways.

It seems the predominant pattern is the long holes get played in both directions, and the par 3 holes get hung off the side of some of the holes and don't get dual duty.

That is a great way to lower construction and maintenance costs. It is also a function of the terrain, as I just answered elsewhere.

[Dan Herrmann]

Thank you!   Great info here.


Since you "like" it, Peter, do you think it's worth an expensive trip from outside the Great Northwest?   


For me, it'd have to be on Peter Pittock's "love" list to get my interest

[Pete_Pittock]

Dan,
         The courses I love that are generally accessible are (were) Pacific Dunes, Wine Valley, Gamble Sands, Sagebrush, St. Andrews (Old), North Berwick (West) and Prestwick. That leaves a lot of likes on my list. Since there are many personal decisions into making such a trip I don't think there is a hard and fast answer for a public forum.
         I said that I would return to Silvies Ranch this year. For me that is 3-4 days away from home and $1000.
         If someone was to invent a logarithmic 1-10 scale on golf courses, I doubt that this would be a 9 or a 10. It is a personal opinion if this would be a 6, 7, or 8.  A large factor in that equation is of you are interested in how a reversible course fits into challenging terrain.
        This is a new course in a preview mode. If I give a positive view that causes someone to go there and they are disappointed it is a shame on me. If I give a negative opinion, and someone decides not to go because of my opinion, shame on me.
        A very worthwhile trip would be to combine Silvies Ranch, Wine Valley and Gamble Sands, but you'll need to like to drive.

[Garland Bayley]

...
        A very worthwhile trip would be to combine Silvies Ranch, Wine Valley and Gamble Sands, but you'll need to like to drive.

And if you fly into SeaTac, it is easy to add Chambers Bay to that trip.
 

[Daryl David]

...
        A very worthwhile trip would be to combine Silvies Ranch, Wine Valley and Gamble Sands, but you'll need to like to drive.

And if you fly into SeaTac, it is easy to add Chambers Bay to that trip.
 

SEA to Chambers to Gamble to Wine Valley to Silvies and back to SEA.  1150 miles/20:30 hours of driving.  Road Trip!  You gotta love the West.  Try to explain that golf trip to someone from the UK.  For that matter to someone from New York. 

[Pete_Pittock]

That is why I ddn't include Seattle, or Chambers Bay, in my post. Spokane, Boise, Richland are much better hubs.


But back to Silvies Ranch.

[Garland Bayley]

Jumped the gun.

[Kalen Braley]

...
        A very worthwhile trip would be to combine Silvies Ranch, Wine Valley and Gamble Sands, but you'll need to like to drive.

And if you fly into SeaTac, it is easy to add Chambers Bay to that trip.
 

SEA to Chambers to Gamble to Wine Valley to Silvies and back to SEA.  1150 miles/20:30 hours of driving.  Road Trip!  You gotta love the West.  Try to explain that golf trip to someone from the UK.  For that matter to someone from New York. 

The west is wide open, but navigating the distances don't take as long because we can drive 85-90 MPH on the major higways, unlike the UK and its one lane, narrow two lane roads..


But one thing is for sure, Silvies Ranch isn't convenient to anywhere, its super remote...

[Garland Bayley]

...
The west is wide open, but navigating the distances don't take as long because we can drive 85-90 MPH on the major higways, unlike the UK and its one lane, narrow two lane roads..

...

Sure, you can drive that fast, but as Dave McCollum reports you can also pay the speeding fines.
Speed limit going to Silvies will be 55, and the Washington courses by more direct routes on secondary roads 60.

If you fly into Boise and make the mistake of going the wrong way (east), you will find a speed limit of 85.

[Pete_Pittock]

Trying for a second time to bring the thread back to Silvies Ranch, I would like to revise and extend my remarks to Dan Harmann a few replies ago before the tangents appeared.


          I feel like the first rater for the course, and my rating becomes known before a more representative sample brings a consensus.. The resort obviously needs more play and feedback for that to happen. Do make a trip out to see Silvies, and throw in a couple more in the area.
         It is remote, but so is Dismal River and I think Silvies would hold its own in that matchup, and IMO it dusts another remote
location at Valentine, NB.
         Since this seems to be a golf architecture forum, sure, pack the bags, hitch the wagon and visit the ranch. It is two courses and you need to see how the architect make both work. That is a much different package than making a long trip for one course.
         I thought I would copy my response to a different thread -
                            Re: Whip it Out: Post your Top 25 Courses Played                            
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2009, 04:38:05 PM »

My first tier
Cypress Point                   Oakmont               Pebble Beach                  Pacific Dunes          St Andrews (Old)
Royal Dornoch                  Carnoustie             Royal Melbourne (West)   Crystal Downs         Muirfield
Ballybunion (Old)              Kingston Heath      Pinehurst #2                   Prairie Dunes           Turnberry (Ailsa)
Kiawah Island (Ocean)      TPC Sawgrass        Casa de Campo (TotD)      Olympic (Lake)        Ballyneal
Royal Birkdale                  Sunningdale (Old)  Royal Lytham & St Annes   Old Macdonald           North Berwick (West)

My second tier 25 (not necessarily in order)
Prestwick                New South Wales              Woodhall Spa             Bandon Dunes        Kingsbarns   
Ganton                      Royal Adelaide                 Harbour Town               Chambers Bay           Royal Liverpool  (Hoylake) 
Pasatiempo         Royal St Georges          Rock Creek Cattle Company   Clear Creek Tahoe    Sagebrush
Rustic Canyon       Monterey Peninsula (Shore)        Bandon Trails            Pronghorn (Fazio)       Pumpkin Ridge (Witch Hollow)

Dropped from second tier 8/22/10:   Waterville             Royal Porthcawl                  Desert Forest              Royal Troon
Red: Added 8/22/10  Green: overlooked in orig. post



That list needs to be updated, and most of the top 25 are private. I think both Silvies courses may not crack the top 15, but they certainly should appear in the top 50.

[Pete_Pittock]

That concludes the Hankins course. I will start the Craddock course after a short vacation continuing a quest to play every course in Oregon. 17 to go.


I like the routing, it starts working a long valley, then very good holes to reach a high meadow, the returns in zigzag fashion down good golfing terrain. Think the course is has very strong par 3s and par 4s. My favorite holes are 7, 8, 11, 14, 15. Hard stretch at 5,6,8,10, 11. Once the Craddock course is up I'll try to dissect the multiple use  holes.


One non-golf item is the ever-present bird houses. The ranch has maybe 5,000 of them and the residents keep the area clear of mosquitos.

[Garland Bayley]

Slag has the most experience playing there and must know the holes inside out. I'm hoping he chimes in.

[Brad Tufts]

Great Job Pete...been following closely.


Hard to tell how I feel just from the pictures.  The aerials make it look really interesting and strategic, and some of this comes out in the photos.  I find the current coloring of the fairway grass matching much of the surrounding out-of-play vegetation mutes the ground features in the "on ground" photos, so it would take more study to get my head around how the undulations factor.


Disclaimer:  My opinion is just picture-viewing so should be taken with little (or no) value!  Will have to get out there someday regardless, as I am a Hixon fan after playing Wine Valley a few years ago.

[Dave McCollum]

I think every time I've driven the central Oregon highway, some fool has passed me doing a reasonable speed of 80+ mph.  Very little traffic, very good visibility and conditions.  I let them get a few miles ahead, then match it.  Eventually I catch them pulled over by the highway patrol.  One time, without a rabbit in the lead, I set the cruise control at 65 (posted speed limit 55) and got passed by a cop doing 80+ who did not pull me over.  That seems to be the reasonable compromise speed for a totally ridiculous speed limit.  It just seems like if you drive a reasonable speed, you get busted.     

[Garland Bayley]

... My favorite holes are 7, 8, 11, 14, 15. Hard stretch at 5,6,8,10, 11....

The hole that catches my eye the most in the report is 8. I notice you put it in the hard stretch. Why do you classify this hole as hard?

It seems to me that hard holes are good match play holes, as they are more likely to be won or lost than easy holes.

I like the down hill tee shot, the center-line bunker, the extra space on the left to catch my slice , and  the green running away from the play. But then I have never played the course so the "Mooch" would be on my case.

[Pete_Pittock]

Garland,
I consider the hole hard first because of the dynamics of the tee shot. There is no indication of what way the hole goes once you reach the bunker. I guessed right because the bunker is off center and it seemed that we still should be heading away from the clubhouse. If you hit the bunker it leaves a difficult shot. If you play left of the bunker it leaves a longer shot. Most likely you will not be coming in from a good angle. A too strong shot leaves you on the other green with a longputt with lots of break. I didn't consider how I played the hole.

[Garland Bayley]

Sounds like I needed to make you a Google Earth yardage book/stroke saver before you went to Silvies.

[Norbert P]

Peter, mille grazie.  Very glad you made the trek and composed another fine report of what's new out there in the world of golf. Especially in our bailiwick. Please pardon my hibernation from the cyber world, I've been in a battle with catching up with the responsibilities of reality.


  It was an exciting project to be on with Dan from the phone call to the routing through to grow-in, and it is difficult to describe the process with brevity.  When it all began it was during the depth of the latest financial constipation of America, so beyond the exhilarating fact that I was working on a new "free radical", kaleidoscopically routed golf course in some remote outpost of humanity, I was fortunate to be working at all.  It was certainly an adventure; one of Earthly discoveries of ancient ocean fossils through to the many astral discussions with George Crump.   


  When I think of the flavors of the golf courses, they're not salty or sweet, nor sour or bitter, they're, um, umami.   Certainly I'm too saturated with the place to be objective, and the taste of umami, loosely described as meaty, is as indefinitely undefinable as a Trump tweet. I must say that I think the terroir of the place should not go unappreciated. Some of it's land was created over 150 million years ago as the shores of the Pacific Ocean, with fascinating animals, of species still existing, Sandhill Cranes, elk, pronghorns, redband trout, etc., and extinct rhinos, camels, sabertoothed tigers, etc., that has been semi-anthropomorphised into fine land for golf. There was not much land moved except for some visibility, safety and playability concerns, leaving the real emphasis on the ancient structure and the subtly variable environment.  Natural motifs repeat, thematically.


  The trip from Portland is not difficult and there are many interesting ways to get there. Either skirting Mt. Hood (Hiway 26) or heading directly east (I84) through the Columbia Gorge, each will give some inspiring geology to look at. Quickest, and my most oft-chosen route is to go to Prineville and head east to Paulina and Seneca.  If doing a "golf trail" siege, there's plenty of golf in Bend, Oregon, about 3 hours away from Silvies.  The more compelling drive is from Walla Walla after playing (vanity insists) Wine Valley GC.  Regardless, there's much to see from any direction.   I recently took the Reno to Winnemucca to Burns route for a pleasant eight hour drive with a "Bible on the Dash" for security. Lots of Greg Brown (... happy, happy, happy, happy, happy, happy by myself. . . "), Corb Lund, Hayes Carll, etc, and assorted "shuffle" on the stereo to keep the tires groovin'.
  I certainly hope many more get out there to play the courses.  We didn't build them for a novel exercise in building a reversible pair of courses. They're there to play golf on. 


 Thanks again, Pete, ... and you too, Garland! 
 Looking forward to more. 




      Keep on chooglin' y'all


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 "Expose yourself to art"   Bud Clark

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