Women's Open @ Kingsbarns...Spoiler Alert

[John Kavanaugh]

We have all played the course so it seems a natural discussion. I like them not finishing on the Pete Dye inspired 18th even though it seems like a waste of a stadium setting. Why?


One of the announcers just said the course was not manufactured and that anyone could have found a course on that land. Just how much dirt was moved?



What is with Michele Wie and that new swing. It borders on unattractive.

[Marty Bonnar]

John,
They've taken the Corporate dollar/pound and figured they'd get more hospitality around the first hole.
Cheers,
F.


PS 700,000 cubic metres...!

[Jonathan Mallard]

I'm having a hard time figuring the routing on the scorecard vs what I played.


Did they start from #2?

[Marty Bonnar]

I'm having a hard time figuring the routing on the scorecard vs what I played.


Did they start from #2?

Yes!


Cheers,
F.

[Jon Wiggett]

One of the announcers just said the course was not manufactured and that anyone could have found a course on that land. Just how much dirt was moved?

The announcer is pretty crap then if he is blurting out such rubbish. KB was built on arable farmland and a lot of time and effort was taken to CREATE the dune scape. A lot of dirt was moved.

[Thomas Dai]

Wasn't there a 9-hole course somewhere on the Kingsbarns site between WW1 and WW2?
Atb

[Marty Bonnar]

Wasn't there a 9-hole course somewhere on the Kingsbarns site between WW1 and WW2?
Atb

D,
Here's the history.
http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1815-kingsbarns/
Cheers,
F.

[Marty Bonnar]

I must try and find/post the amazing photo of the site pre-construction from about the sixth tee area which shows the original FLAT FIELDS_______________________________
The course is truly a modern marvel of earth-moving which may have had even perhaps a positive contribution to local bio-diversity. Arable farmland isn't exactly the poster-boy of sustainability...
Come see!
F.

[Matt MacIver]

I don't know what I can add, aside from 1) I love the course top to bottom and it's severely underrated; 2) I played it one time; 3) I'm DVR-ing both Sat and Sunday. 

[Thomas Dai]

Wasn't there a 9-hole course somewhere on the Kingsbarns site between WW1 and WW2?
Atb

D,
Here's the history.
http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1815-kingsbarns/
Cheers,
F.

Marty,
Thanks for this . I thought there was a bit of eye olde golf history to that patch of land.
Atb

[Andy Shulman]

While many of you have probably already figured this out, the announcers just said that the 18th hole for the tournament is what is normally #1.  So, deduct one from every other hole number to figure out how it's being played for the Women's Open.  Despite the stadium setting at the normal 18th hole, there's apparently no room for the stadium...er, grandstand...itself.

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't know what I can add, aside from 1) I love the course top to bottom and it's severely underrated; 2) I played it one time; 3) I'm DVR-ing both Sat and Sunday.

Matt,


Still think the course is severely underrated. For a web.com stop maybe...

[Peter Flory]

That was pretty frustrating watching 95% of putts come up short, especially down the stretch when Kim was reeling a bit.  The players just couldn't adjust. 

Also, I noticed that for about the last 2 hours of the broadcast, there wasn't a single bunker shot.  I've never played Kingsbarns- are the bunkers that out of play or was it just that the setup for the ladies took them out of play?   

[Mark Pearce]

I don't know what I can add, aside from 1) I love the course top to bottom and it's severely underrated; 2) I played it one time; 3) I'm DVR-ing both Sat and Sunday.

How can a course that so many people list in the top 5 in Scotland be underrated, in anyone's mind?  For my part, based on one play, I'd say it's a course that belongs in the dumb blonde category.  It's undeniably beautiful but there's little strategy, bad shots are rewarded as well as good shots and it's easily the easiest "championship" golf course I have ever played.  I'm sure it benefits from the number of overseas (read American) visitors who pay an enormous amount to play it once, enjoy the undeniably excellent welcome and service, marvel at the beauty, play some fun shots (with little downside for failing to carry them off) and have a great time because they shoot the "best" round of their week in Scotland.

[Sean_A]

It's undeniably beautiful but there's little strategy, bad shots are rewarded as well as good shots

I totally disagree with you.  Kingsbarns doesn't kill people with rough or 150 bunkers, but there are plenty of choices to be made while keeping the course playable and fun.  There is a huge lessen to be learned here by the Open venues, which when you think about are mostly modern designs as well. In truth, TOC is the only proper classic design.  Even Sandwich has been dumbed down considerably and Prestwick was booted for lack of space (read too old fashioned).  Nearly every shot on the other Open rota courses is essentially a modern concept.  Its just that Kingbarns does a better job at presenting those concepts and that is why the course plays easier...playablity is a major factor of the design. That can't be said for most of the Open rota. 

Ciao

[Niall C]

I disagree and agree with both of Mark and Sean. I doubt KB is in top 5 Scotland for any list other than US rater dominated rankings. I’ve got absolutely no facts/rankings to point to to back that up, that’s just my perception speaking to other Scottish/UK golfers. I can however see why it’s popular with overseas visitors for the reasons that Sean refers to which is relative lack of bunkers and loads of space to blast away. I’d imagine also the very friendly, more relaxed pay and play welcome that Mark refers to would go down well after maybe being on best behaviour at certain members clubs.


However I wouldn’t go as far as to call KB a dumb blonde as Mark suggests as that title is reserved for Castle Stuart, but would agree that the supposed strategy isn’t really there on a lot of holes. I played the course this year for the first time in nearly a decade having played it perhaps half a dozen times overall and I did enjoy it probably more than I did before, much to my surprise. However I still think the 18^th hole (17^th in the ladies British Open) is a poor hole. For the majority of golfers it’s a layup with nothing to tempt.


Sean – there was a combination of reasons why Prestwick wasn’t picked for the Open after 1925 but lack of space wasn’t one of them, or at least wasn’t the main reason.
 
Niall   

[Matt MacIver]

I played 36 both Sat and Sunday and didn't watch much, but will this week - but wasn't weather a factor? 


My "under ranked" comment was originally a little tongue in cheek, until I read the dumb blonde comment!  To me there's two kinds of strategy: risk/reward and 2) having the ability to play unusual/awkward shots that aren't always apparent - I'm thinking mostly on the ground. I don't recall KB having too many risk/reward decisions but there was plenty of ground game options.  Maybe I loved it because I figured it out and pulled it off, and scored better than several better players who opted for the usual aerial attack.

[David_Tepper]

"Also, I noticed that for about the last 2 hours of the broadcast, there wasn't a single bunker shot.  I've never played Kingsbarns- are the bunkers that out of play or was it just that the setup for the ladies took them out of play?"   

Peter F. -

I have not played Kingsbarns either, but I did watch quite a bit of the Ladies Open over the weekend. It is possible that the rain and dampness of the course kept many balls from bounding into the fairway bunkers or rolling down the slopes into the greenside bunkers.   

DT

[Sean_A]

I doubt KB is in top 5 Scotland for any list other than US rater dominated rankings.

So you looked up Top 100 and found Kingsbarns #6....quite arbitrary between 5 and 6...for sure Kingsbarns is one of the best courses in Scotland regardless of which number is assigned to it.  I spose there is another rating with Golf World, lord knows what it is. 

Ciao

[Matthew Essig]

When my father and I went to Scotland, we played a lot of the courses from Carnoustie down to North Berwick.


Kingsbarns wasn't one of them, for a variety of reasons. And to be honest, after watching it on TV in the Alfred Dunhill tourneys and now this event, I am glad we saved the money and time for the other courses in the area.

[Sean_A]

When my father and I went to Scotland, we played a lot of the courses from Carnoustie down to North Berwick.


Kingsbarns wasn't one of them, for a variety of reasons. And to be honest, after watching it on TV in the Alfred Dunhill tourneys and now this event, I am glad we saved the money and time for the other courses in the area.

And therein lies the difference between playing the best courses compared to courses which interest you more.  Seems like a smart move to me.


Ciao

[David_Tepper]

Ricoh Open was the highest-rated women's major on US. TV so far this year. A great way to cap off 5 weeks of viewing links golf.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/7/breakfast-viewing-trend-ricoh-british-highest-rated-womens-m.html

[Matthew Essig]

Ricoh Open was the highest-rated women's major on US. TV so far this year. A great way to cap off 5 weeks of viewing links golf.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/7/breakfast-viewing-trend-ricoh-british-highest-rated-womens-m.html

Geoff mentions the morning time slot for the success of the mens and women's Open Championships on TV, but I wonder how much of it is the general American golf audience warming up to links golf being the best golf. I hope it is a significant amount!

[Niall C]

I doubt KB is in top 5 Scotland for any list other than US rater dominated rankings.

So you looked up Top 100 and found Kingsbarns #6....quite arbitrary between 5 and 6...for sure Kingsbarns is one of the best courses in Scotland regardless of which number is assigned to it.  I spose there is another rating with Golf World, lord knows what it is. 

Ciao

Sean
 
Actually, I didn’t look up any rankings and I’m surprised to see it so high in the Top 100 Scotland list. As a matter of interest what are the top 5 in that list ? I’d be interested to hear also how that list is produced.
 
FWIW my comments were based on conversations with many home based golfers over the years and my perception was that there was a bias towards traditional links, which in fairness is my bias as well. No doubt it’s a good course but I’d have thought that any home based ranking would have had a lot more of the Open rota plus second tier courses ahead of it.
 
Niall     

[Sean_A]

I doubt KB is in top 5 Scotland for any list other than US rater dominated rankings.

So you looked up Top 100 and found Kingsbarns #6....quite arbitrary between 5 and 6...for sure Kingsbarns is one of the best courses in Scotland regardless of which number is assigned to it.  I spose there is another rating with Golf World, lord knows what it is. 

Ciao

Sean
 
Actually, I didn’t look up any rankings and I’m surprised to see it so high in the Top 100 Scotland list. As a matter of interest what are the top 5 in that list ? I’d be interested to hear also how that list is produced.
 
FWIW my comments were based on conversations with many home based golfers over the years and my perception was that there was a bias towards traditional links, which in fairness is my bias as well. No doubt it’s a good course but I’d have thought that any home based ranking would have had a lot more of the Open rota plus second tier courses ahead of it.
 
Niall   

Niall

Go to the site and all your questions are answered 

http://www.top100golfcourses.com/

Ciao