[Jerry Kluger]

We all saw Spieth play from the driving range and it was explained that the members play the practice area as part of the course so the R&A decided that they would allow it as well.  I was wondering if anyone has seen this at any other course.  I have always seen the driving range marked as out of bounds if for no other reason than safety.  Was the location at RB a driving range or a practice area that they used as a driving range?

[Niall C]

Jerry
 
According to Sky Sports, Speith was 120 yards off line and he still didn’t land on the practice area. I don’t know where the normal members tees are but I suspect it would take a herculean effort for a member to reach the practice area and even then would they go look for the ball ?
 
The only reason for making it out of bounds would be for safety reasons ie. make players play away from the area but in this instance who would have stood up and thought about the practice area at all ?
 
Niall

[Scott Warren]

Our driving range at NSWGC is immediately left of the 18th fairway and is in play. Can be an absolute bastard trying you find your ball almongst all the artillery, but if you do locate it then play away.

[Mike Sweeney]

Spieth was a genius, or at the least he taught me something about the unplayable rule.


Me, I would have played this shot as it was clearly playable - to me.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-4722770/Jordan-Spieth-plays-shot-Royal-Birkdale-driving-range.html





I am an idiot

I have been in that spot many times on #18 at Yale where you drive too far from the forward tees into the severe hill. Between the lie and then the steepness of the hill, it is far better to declare "unplayable" and move back to play the ball in the fairway and with enough space to clear the hill. Jordan = smart, Mike = dumb.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-28


"The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable."
"Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or"
___________
Now a Rules Official could put Spieth on the clock and/or take the "unplayable" decision out of his hands (if we change the rules to give the Rules Official that power).
In the future, I am guessing they will mark ranges OB, and maybe truck areas too.
Jordan Spieth, imo, did nothing wrong and played it really smart. Professional golf (including the USGA, PGA, R&A....) need to adjust.

[Niall C]

Mike


It wasn't that he did anything wrong, it was that he took too long to do it 


Niall

[Jerry Kluger]

Niall: So then it was when he took line of sight relief from the trailers that he moved over to the practice area - correct?

[ward peyronnin]

What I haven't heard Talked about is the collateral benefit of how Speith worked the process. No doubt  a goal was to slow down, let his mind fix on the problem at hand in order to clear the bad mojo, and then come out of the gate with an isolated and specific goal: make bogey. A mature and professional approach many don't recognize when the situation calls for it. Hate to be his match play opponent (which Kuchar was at the time).

Johnny Miller ( the Joseph Smith of golf or at least the Angel Moroni) babbled about the best option would be to go back to the tee and that inserting of his ego was all he could muster.

He had John Paramor and the R&A head of rules with him. They would have had to put themselves on the clock too

[Niall C]

Jerry
 
Excuse my inexactness in terms of the terminology.
 
My interpretation of what went on was that Speith decided his ball was unplayable (one shot penalty) and decided to take a drop by going back the way keeping his original position in line with the flag. He then dropped between the trailer and lorry, and then took relief (no penalty) from the temporary obstruction in front of him ie. lorry/trailer.
 
All the flaffing about was him determining, and getting Paramour to OK it, where to drop so that he got the most advantageous sideways move. I can well imagine on the back of this that the R&A/USGA might review the rules such that you can’t make a drop which then entitles you to a further free drop, if only to try and speed things up and keep it simple.
 
I suppose the other question is, in terms of being on the clock, do they make any allowance for the drop scenario ? I suppose they must make some allowance although I don’t think you could take much time off for the officials involvement in this instance.
 
Niall

[Ryan Coles]

Niall


What happens if your nearest point of relief or two two club lengths leave you in casual water?

[David_Tepper]

"What happens if your nearest point of relief or two two club lengths leave you in casual water?"

Ryan -

If the "nearest point of relief" lands you in casual water, than it is not really the nearest point of relief. I believe you would be able to take a drop beyond the casual water, even if you a greater than 2-club lengths away.

(If I am wrong, I am sure the rules mavens will let us know!)

DT 

[Niall C]

Ryan


You could always go back to the tee or where ever you hit your ball from originally. The option of going back to play the ball again ensures you don't have to take additional relief.


Niall

[Kyle Harris]

The clock is switched off the minute a Rules Official or member of the Committee becomes involved. So long as the group takes efforts to make up the time lost they are fine.

Kuchar and Speith did just that.

[Ryan Coles]

Ryan


You could always go back to the tee or where ever you hit your ball from originally. The option of going back to play the ball again ensures you don't have to take additional relief.


Niall

That'll quicken the game up. Good thinking.

[Ryan Coles]

"What happens if your nearest point of relief or two two club lengths leave you in casual water?"

Ryan -

If the "nearest point of relief" lands you in casual water, than it is not really the nearest point of relief. I believe you would be able to take a drop beyond the casual water, even if you a greater than 2-club lengths away.

(If I am wrong, I am sure the rules mavens will let us know!)

DT

I believe you should adopt a sequential approach as they did yesterday.

[Wayne_Kozun]

At my club, Scarboro G&CC in Toronto, the range is between the first and third fairways and drives from either tee often end up on the range.  It is not considered OOB and players on the range are expected to pause while the players plays his shot.

[David_Tepper]

"I believe you should adopt a sequential approach as they did yesterday."

Ryan -

Yes, I agree.

DT

[Wayne_Kozun]

I believe you should adopt a sequential approach as they did yesterday.

You really have to as otherwise you would have too many combs and perms to be able to regulate.

[Ryan Coles]

Exactly. In many cases you have to take your stance after the drop to determine if further free relief is available.

[Howard Riefs]

What I haven't heard Talked about is the collateral benefit of how Speith worked the process. No doubt  a goal was to slow down, let his mind fix on the problem at hand in order to clear the bad mojo, and then come out of the gate with an isolated and specific goal: make bogey. A mature and professional approach many don't recognize when the situation calls for it. Hate to be his match play opponent (which Kuchar was at the time).

Here's one related take at the end of this clip...


http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nobilo-spieths-drop-no-13-was-perfect-timeout/

[Niall C]

Ryan


You could always go back to the tee or where ever you hit your ball from originally. The option of going back to play the ball again ensures you don't have to take additional relief.


Niall

That'll quicken the game up. Good thinking.

Actually in this instance it would have, wouldn't it. Choice is go back to the tee or take straight forward drop and get on with it with a net saving of what, 10 or 15 minutes ? Make it straight forward, stop the fannying about and get on with it.

[Thomas Dai]

Would have been 'interesting' if the exact same incident to Spieths had occurred earlier in the day....


Players hitting balls down the range
Practice ground covered in balls
Folks walking in and out of the trucks
Workshop activity in the trucks
Range balls lying outside the range area.


For such an event it ought to have been an OB area really (for general member play maybe not).


Atb


PS - in an 1920/30's Open at Muirfield Walter Hagen apparently played from the 8th tee deliberately into the bottom of the practice ground as the line into the 8th green was preferable from there.

[Jerry Kluger]

It is interesting that they did not make the practice area out of bounds yet they made the parallel fairway out of bounds. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Seve. Car park.
Jordan. Truck park.
.

[Ted Sturges]

I was a USGA Committeeman and rules official for 13 years.  In one of the first events I worked, I was giving a player a red hazard drop, which would have put him right on a cart path.  I "skipped" that step and took him to the other side of the path and dropped his ball there.  The senior rules official was observing me from the top of a hill a few hundred yards away.  After the player finished the hole, the senior rules official came to me and asked me about the ruling, which I went through with him.  He said (and I never forgot this)..."why didn't you drop his ball on the cart path?".  I said, "because the path is an obstruction and he would be entitled to relief from it".  He told me to NEVER skip a step.  He explained that (a) I don't know where the ball will go after it is dropped, and (b) the player may prefer to play it off the path, which would be his right after taking a hazard drop.  On that day, I learned the importance of taking each ruling one step at a time. 

What Spieth did was brilliant (and it made Johnny Miller look like an idiot for insisting that his best deal was to go back to the tee).  Spieth knew all of his options.  He stood on the top of that hill, with John Paramor to get confirmation that the spot where the truck was parked was on the line backward from the flagstick to his ball (it was).  He knew he had the right to drop behind the truck (on the proper line).  Recall that he didn't drop behind the last truck, he dropped in between trucks...this was also very smart and took 10-15 yards off the shot he ultimately played.  He then knew he'd get T.I.O. (temporary immovable obstruction) relief from the trucks.  From there, he could drop it on closely mown grass, about 230 yards from the green, where he had a chance to hit it close to the green (which he did, but he could not have from the tee of a 505 yard par 4 Johnny Miller!).  From that spot, he got it up and down for an all world bogey.  Agree that it took too long.  Disagree that he did anything improper.  Sometimes it takes awhile to get the rules sorted out.  I felt sorry for Kuchar for his wait.  I was VERY IMPRESSED with Spieth's poise under pressure and his knowledge of the rules of golf.

TS

[David_Tepper]

Ted S. -

Thank you for your knowledgeable, intelligent and informative post.

DT

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