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Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« on: July 21, 2017, 10:00:29 PM »
My 4 handicap buddy hits a good drive two yards short of a fairway bunker on our #1 handicap hole. He has a slightly downhill lie. I'm three yards short of him with a flat lie. Getting a shot, I hit the green and he comes up short. He thinks that is poor course set up and should be altered.


Discuss.


(Hint: we belong to a US private club. :) )




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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 10:03:36 PM »
How is it poor course set up?
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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 10:54:14 PM »
The only thing a fairway gives you is a good chance to make solid contact off a good lie.
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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 11:10:09 PM »
Tell him to stay on the range.

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Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 12:10:42 AM »
No. It's golf . . . not bowling.
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Peter Gannon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 12:47:35 AM »
It takes a few strolls around to get the "lay of the land".


Next time, he will hit  a 3 wood, or try another angle....
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 02:33:50 AM »
How else can bunkers have maximum effectiveness if they are not gathering?  I say he was lucky not to be in the sand.

Ciao
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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2017, 03:32:57 AM »
It might be called the 'FAIRway' but that's no entitlement to a flat lie.

atb
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Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2017, 03:59:46 AM »
Many courses in England feature ridge and furrow fairways, a relic of the agricultural practices of up to a thousand years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_and_furrow


Whether you get a flat, an uphill, or a downhill lie is a complete lottery.


I guess they could be bulldozed flat. But why would you do that?


« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 04:03:16 AM by Duncan Cheslett »
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2017, 05:44:09 AM »
Quote from: Duncan Cheslett on July 22, 2017, 03:59:46 AM
Many courses in England feature ridge and furrow fairways, a relic of the agricultural practices of up to a thousand years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_and_furrow


Whether you get a flat, an uphill, or a downhill lie is a complete lottery.


+1
and they discourage cart use


I guess they could be bulldozed flat. But why would you do that?
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Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »
Quote from: Bill Brightly on July 21, 2017, 10:00:29 PM
He has a slightly downhill lie. I'm three yards short of him with a flat lie. Getting a shot, I hit the green and he comes up short. He thinks that is poor course set up and should be altered.



Hire a contractor, flatten that three yard area, and send him the bill. Then ask him how many more flat lies he wants :)
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MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 07:06:13 AM »
No.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2017, 08:37:57 AM »
Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 09:18:52 AM »
Image result for surveyor flagsWe ask players to plant one of these if they find a flat spot on the course.
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2017, 11:13:26 AM »

Both Trevino and Watson wrote/said that you ought to try to find a level lie with your tee shot.  Neither of those thought it should be guaranteed.  Trevino once proposed architects grind out just big enough to hit level spots at a succession of distances from the tee, starting at about 220, 240, 260, etc.  I don't recall the exact figures, but he thought it might encourage more thought about not hitting driver on every tee.


Of course, many golfers believe its their architectural right to hit driver because chicks dig the long ball, I guess.
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Anthony Gholz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »
at our course, 1 block off Lake Huron, they're called lake bottom sand ridges.  Luckily we were logged and grazed, but not farmed so the humps and bumps come "naturally" with 100 years of mowing and chemicals and divots
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 22, 2017, 08:37:57 AM
Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.


Interesting point. Tom, do you think the same principle applies to tree limbs that overhang fairways?
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2017, 02:43:06 PM »
 8)  In your dreams or perhaps at just TopGolf...
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Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2017, 03:14:53 PM »
No good discussion of architecture begins with a player's belief he's entitled to anything.


Tell your buddy to work on his course management.  That'll be much cheaper for everyone involved.


Ken
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2017, 04:57:26 PM »
Quote from: Rick Shefchik on July 22, 2017, 01:10:49 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 22, 2017, 08:37:57 AM
Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.


Interesting point. Tom, do you think the same principle applies to tree limbs that overhang fairways?


Yes.  I don't think tree limbs should be too much in play, because they reduce strategy, and I often recommend that such trees be removed.  But I don't think it's "unfair" if you have to deal with one on occasion.


Of course, there's nothing in the early Rules about trees, because there weren't any trees!
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Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2017, 05:50:48 PM »
I'm still not sure I'm convinced players should be entitled to a level lie on the tee box.

WW
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2017, 08:30:31 PM »
I am surprised this question was even asked  ???   As I tell people here in the states who have never played a true links course - you have never really played "real" golf! 
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