Sagebrush Update

[David_Tepper]

http://digitalmag.globalgolfpost.com/20170717/CAN#&pageSet=18&page=0&contentItem=0

[Daryl David]

Head scratcher to say the least. Sounds like the developer believes if he builds a driving range and clubhouse that will attract 30 families to build homes and join the club. Wow, the ops mgr. is not exaggerating when he says there is no business plan.  While waiting to define this mysterious business plan, he maintains the property with a staff of 20 but wants nothing to do with potentially 50 to 60 players a day paying $60 green fees.  No wonder people make fun of the golf business.


 

[Ted Harris]

http://www.merrittherald.com/loader-stolen-sagebrush-golf-course/


Researching the owner/new developer of Sagebrush finds many negative comments about his business practices

[Tom_Doak]

While waiting to define this mysterious business plan, he maintains the property with a staff of 20 but wants nothing to do with potentially 50 to 60 players a day paying $60 green fees.  No wonder people make fun of the golf business.


 

It's not that unusual.  When High Pointe's developer passed away, there was a local operator who offered to lease the course from his son and keep it open.  But the son asked how much they would charge for green fees, and thought the low price would somehow denigrate the course.  So, instead, he kept it closed for five years, let it deteriorate, and then sold the land for a hops farm. 

[Daryl David]

While waiting to define this mysterious business plan, he maintains the property with a staff of 20 but wants nothing to do with potentially 50 to 60 players a day paying $60 green fees.  No wonder people make fun of the golf business.


 

It's not that unusual.  When High Pointe's developer passed away, there was a local operator who offered to lease the course from his son and keep it open.  But the son asked how much they would charge for green fees, and thought the low price would somehow denigrate the course.  So, instead, he kept it closed for five years, let it deteriorate, and then sold the land for a hops farm.

Well, the son succeeded. No one is denigrating the course now. 

[Robert Thompson]

This was my column. I'm a big fan of the course, but I'm baffled at what's going on. Several I know think it'll be the next owner who makes it work. The current one initially announced a couple of years ago that it was acquiring the course, then that turned out to be premature. Then they announced a second time they were acquiring the course, brought in a management team and Troon Golf and ... nothing.

[Pete_Pittock]

I met the current owner a few years ago and had a nice chat in front of the cabins and found out what he was planning. Afterwards I was left shaking my head, with plans for a large clubhouse, a marina and pushing the real estate angle. A full resort with golf fitting in somewhere. For that the only selling point is being closer to Vancouver than Kamloops or the Okanogan Valley with very little to offer than the resort itself. Let us hope a sale is in order.

[Garland Bayley]

Let me be the contrarian. Other than Bob Jenkins being a great guy, I don't see much of a reason to play golf at Sagebrush. The way I see it there are no options to playing most holes, which means getting around the course takes forever,  because if you miss the required shot, you spend forever looking for balls. I played the Kings Putter there, and i witnessed much better players than me suffering this fate too. The scenery is western cattle ranch. Since I grew up in the west and worked on a ranch, I don't find it special either. Best it is shut down, and money spent more meaningfully elsewhere IMO.

[Pete_Pittock]

Let me be the contrarian. Other than Bob Jenkins being a great guy, I don't see much of a reason to play golf at Sagebrush. The way I see it there are no options to playing most holes, which means getting around the course takes forever,  because if you miss the required shot, you spend forever looking for balls. I played the Kings Putter there, and i witnessed much better players than me suffering this fate too. The scenery is western cattle ranch. Since I grew up in the west and worked on a ranch, I don't find it special either. Best it is shut down, and money spent more meaningfully elsewhere IMO.

Thank you. I joined, despite the 6+ hour drive, because it gave me all the excitement that the Bandon courses that I no longer play.

[Garland Bayley]

Pete,

Do you think Gamble Sands could be a suitable replacement to Sagebrush for you?

[Brad Tufts]

I'm on board with Garland's sentiment that Bob Jenkins is a great guy, but little else.

I agree with Pete that Sagebrush is equally as engaging as the Bandon experience, in general.

Seems crazy to me also that someone thinks the place is better closed for now...obviously it takes money to keep a place running, but aren't they paying 20 guys to do that on some level anyways?  Why not eat into that cost by taking some greens fees?

[Matt Bosela]

Let me be the contrarian. Other than Bob Jenkins being a great guy, I don't see much of a reason to play golf at Sagebrush. The way I see it there are no options to playing most holes, which means getting around the course takes forever,  because if you miss the required shot, you spend forever looking for balls. I played the Kings Putter there, and i witnessed much better players than me suffering this fate too. The scenery is western cattle ranch. Since I grew up in the west and worked on a ranch, I don't find it special either. Best it is shut down, and money spent more meaningfully elsewhere IMO.

To each their own, I guess.


I think there are myriad playing options at Sagebrush, a course that allows you to use the ground on a great number of holes and it is exceptionally wide and playable for the most part. 


The place almost seems cursed and I truly hope it finds the right owner in short order.  I still feel that it's one of the best courses I've played in Canada and unquestionably one of the most fun and unique this country has to offer.

[Sean Leary]

Let me be the contrarian. Other than Bob Jenkins being a great guy, I don't see much of a reason to play golf at Sagebrush. The way I see it there are no options to playing most holes, which means getting around the course takes forever,  because if you miss the required shot, you spend forever looking for balls. I played the Kings Putter there, and i witnessed much better players than me suffering this fate too. The scenery is western cattle ranch. Since I grew up in the west and worked on a ranch, I don't find it special either. Best it is shut down, and money spent more meaningfully elsewhere IMO.

This might make your top 20 dumbest post list, which is not easy to do.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,


I too am baffled by your comments on SageBrush. You and I have a similar skill level given how close our matches have been, and I couldn't disagree more.  As a 18+ capper, I thought the course was extremely playable, with plenty of width, terrific greens and interesting features otherwise to keep nearly every skill level engaged.  Yes a few tee shots were challenging, but that can be said about nearly any course...


Sagebrush is in my personal top 10, and would love to get back there again some day.

[Bob Jenkins]

I have had the pleasure to host many GCAers and others at Sagebrush and based upon the reaction of those who have had the experience, everyone has great admiration for the course. Personally, I have never had so much fun on a golf course than my time at Sagebrush. The options available on several holes, especially on approach shots, the firm conditions, the undulation of the greens including false fronts and backboards and the overall experience and beauty of the place make it a very special place. I am obviously biased but totally disagree with Garland and line up with Pete Pittock, Bob Loblaw, Kalen, Matt, Robert Thompson and others.


Also I am not a nice guy!


I have been looking into what is really happening up there and once I have some firm information, would be pleased to share it on this board. I hope!

[Pete_Pittock]

Pete,

Do you think Gamble Sands could be a suitable replacement to Sagebrush for you?

Not quite Trumpcare? as a replacement. I was family at Sagebrush, just a visitor at Gamble Sands on my one trip.

[Garland Bayley]

Let me be the contrarian. Other than Bob Jenkins being a great guy, I don't see much of a reason to play golf at Sagebrush. The way I see it there are no options to playing most holes, which means getting around the course takes forever,  because if you miss the required shot, you spend forever looking for balls. I played the Kings Putter there, and i witnessed much better players than me suffering this fate too. The scenery is western cattle ranch. Since I grew up in the west and worked on a ranch, I don't find it special either. Best it is shut down, and money spent more meaningfully elsewhere IMO.

This might make your top 20 dumbest post list, which is not easy to do.

You don't like Carne. I love it. You like Sagebrush. I don't.

I guess the difference between us is that I don't make a point of calling you dumb. You're just different opinionated.

[Garland Bayley]

Pete,

Do you think Gamble Sands could be a suitable replacement to Sagebrush for you?

Not quite Trumpcare? as a replacement. I was family at Sagebrush, just a visitor at Gamble Sands on my one trip.

Good point! The intent of my question was the playablilty for you, as I believe your comparison with Bandon was about playability for you.

[Garland Bayley]

In order to get to the approach shot options, you have to get the tee shot in play. I agree that the options on the approach shots are there. Perhaps a different maintenance meld than what I saw while there would help. Too many tee shots that would stay in play on almost all courses would run down the severe fairway slopes and become lost or lengthly searches. Perhaps a wide first cut of rough before primary rough would alleviate much of this problem. The fairways are wide enough that even some of the fairway could be sacrificed to be a first cut and improve playability.

And, Bob, I don't think you will get many on here to agree with your opinion of yourself.

[Brad Tufts]

Leary doesn't like Carne?  What an asshole! 

I loved Carne...it was Enniscrone that didn't do it for me in that region.

[Pete_Pittock]

In order to get to the approach shot options, you have to get the tee shot in play. I agree that the options on the approach shots are there. Perhaps a different maintenance meld than what I saw while there would help. Too many tee shots that would stay in play on almost all courses would run down the severe fairway slopes and become lost or lengthly searches. Perhaps a wide first cut of rough before primary rough would alleviate much of this problem. The fairways are wide enough that even some of the fairway could be sacrificed to be a first cut and improve playability.

And, Bob, I don't think you will get many on here to agree with your opinion of yourself.

Your first sentence tells it all. After my first round I learned to play the proper tees for my game, inventing my own composite course at the suggestion of Richard Zokol. They made numerous changes in maintenance to help keep balls in play.

[Sean Leary]

Leary doesn't like Carne?  What an asshole! 

I loved Carne...it was Enniscrone that didn't do it for me in that region.

I liked Carne but was disappointed in in compared to my expectations.


I also don't think that Garland is dumb, but he continues to try to make me change my mind on that.

[Garland Bayley]

Leary doesn't like Carne?  What an asshole! 

I loved Carne...it was Enniscrone that didn't do it for me in that region.

I liked Carne but was disappointed in in compared to my expectations.


I also don't think that Garland is dumb, but he continues to try to make me change my mind on that.

... Not a Carne fan myself, and it is really out of the way.
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