[Mark Fedeli]

Research shows that only one thread dedicated to Marine Park exists on GCA, and it was 6 years ago, and not very extensive. A lot has changed since then.


Outside of Bethpage, Marine Park is the course I've played most in my life. I absolutely love it, and have never been bored by it. Sure, it seems like it's a bit of a nothing burger from the tee, but the greens are so bold, with so much contour, that on most holes it absolutely does matter where you place your tee shot (though the renovation and reduction of a few greenside bunkers in recent years has made that less true).


When it comes to inexpensive municipal golf courses on somewhat nondescript pieces of land, I love the Marine Park formula, where you are allowed some room to spray off the tee, but the greens provide a thrill and a difficult two-putt on nearly all of them. And it's not like the terrain is dead flat. On most holes the land has slight tumbles and rolls. Outside of the trip up and back down the hill, I would say Nairn reminds me a lot of Marine Park in the questions it asks and the challenges it presents.


They've done a lot of work at Marine Park in the last 5-6 years, improving the conditioning and aesthetics, and they should be proud. It's still a 5+ hour round, but that's life. While I absolutely loathe slow play, I'm so accustomed to the length of a round in the NYC area that I've almost gotten to the point where any round that doesn't keep me on the course for at least 4.5 hours instinctively feels like some sort of rip off.


There's a lot more they could do, of course. They could add more fairway features that require more strategy off the tee. But if the money is not available for that, or if the worry is that the rounds will stretch consistently beyond 6 hours, then I can understand why they do not. As it stands, faced with their history and unique set of circumstances, I think Marine Park is about as good as could be hoped for. I'll take relatively bland fairways and mega-exciting greens over the opposite any day of the week. Put simply, I am beyond thankful that this course exists so close to my home.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:


Who's responsible for the improvements to the course?

[Jaeger Kovich]

S

Mark:


Who's responsible for the improvements to the course?

Stephen Kay.

[Mark Fedeli]

S

Mark:


Who's responsible for the improvements to the course?

Stephen Kay.

Correct. They haven't done much to the greens, outside of updating a few bunkers. The most noticeable contribution seems to be the man-made dunes and fescue-topped mounding which now run through the property. They have been added subtly enough, and do help provide a bit of much-needed definition between a handful of holes. I've heard their main reason for existing is to help funnel water out toward the fairways so it doesn't pool up between holes, which was a major problem in the past. They've also added a few new back tees.


There have been a couple missteps. Something needed to be done to the right of the 3rd fairway, but adding a long, narrow, parallel, Florida-style bunker with synthetic-looking, gleaming white sand probably wasn't it. They also removed hugely strategic bunkers from in front of the 3rd green and the short par-4 4th hole. Again, maybe a budgetary decision as a total rebuild was deemed too costly.  Or maybe a pace of play decision. And their version of the Lion's Mouth green (#8) was tamed a bit too much by recent adjustments, when it really needed to be made even more dramatic but with a shorter tee shot.


I definitely don't love every decision, but as long as the greens themselves remain so fun, and 18 holes without a 3-putt remains a major accomplishment, I'm happy.

[Michael Felton]

I’ve played Marine Park a good few times with Mark, though not in the last couple of years, so I haven’t seen all the renovations. I think on most courses not three putting is more about how good of a putter you are and less about where you put your approach shot. On Marine Park I’d say the opposite is true. If you hit the greens in the wrong spots it’s hard to even three putt. If those greens ever got fast they’d be unplayable. Only course I’ve seen with wackier greens is Engineers. Even then that’s probably only because the greens at Engineers are so much faster.


I agree there isn’t all that much thought required from the tee. A couple of holes on the back nine that ask you to take on fairway bunkers or not. It’s really a second shot course though. Leaving yourself in the right spots. It’s good fun though and a serious challenge while looking like not much on google earth.

[Mark Fedeli]

Great points, Mike. I agree about Engineers as well.


Marine Park is the only scruffy muni I’ve ever experienced where they slowed the greens down and I was thankful for it. Up until a few years ago, there would be multiple pins in a round where the ball would roll right back down to your feet, or run away 30 feet past the hole, if your speed wasn’t absolutely perfect. It never really bothered me, as it just became part of the challenge of being sure you were in A+ position, but I’m glad they toned things down.

[Bill Charles]

Engineers has that one drop off par 3 that makes me quiver. An easy fan favorite!

[Peter Gannon]

Nice shout out to Marine Park, Mark!  The changes over the last couple of years have been great, and I've enjoyed having it as an local option.


I played it last season last time.  Sad to hear about the bunker removals at 3 and 4.  That front right bunker of the 3rd green which wrapped around it was always on my mind for the second shot in.  (since my miss is a blocked right iron shot!)


4 - that bunker never really came into play, since it was always a 9iron or wedge in.  So now you can run up that elevated green from the right?


I really like the new tee box across the water on 9.  It gives the rest of the front 9 some diversity, the one time you are asked to hit a precise drive, biting off the bunker over the water, and risking that right fairway bunker, or trees if you keep it too far right/safe.  You can go right, but makes is a long way to the green.


I  have always enjoyed the back nine.  More angles off the tee, ant the green on 12 is almost as severe as 8! Whether playing it recently, or back when glass and car parts were found in bunkers, the greens always held interest, made you pay attention, and a challenge!


Hope to see you out there soon! 

[Mark Fedeli]

There he is! Was hoping you'd chime in on one of these NYC-area threads.


For #4, it's such a short par 4, that I thought that front-right bunker really helped add some necessary challenge to the short iron shots into that green, especially since so many people hit driver there and have less than 100 left. It also gave them a very narrow area behind it to place a sucker pin.


It's hard to argue with anything that helps speed up play, but that green is quite a bit easier task now.


I think my favorite feature out there is the "ass-crack" in the front of the 10th green, which looks like the result of years of poor drainage. I truly hope they don't ever get rid of it. It's wonky and weird and probably not intentional but it adds a nice bit of quirky character.

[Peter Gannon]

I do hope "ass crack" bunker takes hold and becomes part of our GCA references for architects for years to come.   Pure Brooklyn.


You know I'm not a bomber, but with wind help (which is a huge factor there) I've been over the green on #10 in 2 shots and doubled the hole.  I was livid then, but I was also just understanding architecture, and that the idea was not to thoughtlessly hit 3wood and run it through the green. 


But again, it's been such a cool turnaround at Marine Park, and really under the radar.  Good for them!


I'll jump in the other NYC threads at some point.  It's a fast moving train though, and tough to keep up! 

[Mark Fedeli]

I do hope "ass crack" bunker takes hold and becomes part of our GCA references for architects for years to come.   Pure Brooklyn.

Indeed. Not a bunker on 10 at MP, though. It's just a small crevice that formed on the front portion of the green, running down into the fairway. Oftentimes they'll put the pin behind it and putting through it is an adventure.

[Jeffrey Stein]

Hi Mark,


I wrote that review of Marine Park back in 2013.  The following thread link has a few reference photos for anyone curious to see
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55780.msg1294339.html#msg1294339


You give a very fair assessment of Marine Park for what it is, surprisingly fun in the right conditions.  I think most first time visitors would be shocked at the interest and variety in the greens. 


Side note, I just played another really good RTJ track, Montauk Downs.  It was my first and only visit, but I left with the feeling that I would love to play it again.  Great setting with a pretty good set of greens as well. 

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