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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2017, 09:02:47 AM »



Mike,


Love that quote. Have said similar, but not quite as pithily.


I do recall a pro who used to say "Never say "easy to maintain" unless you insert the word "Properly." It can change the meaning of the sentence in practical and profound ways."


But, I always ask an owner or superintendent (easier to do now that most work is renovations) what their maintenance budget is before designing bunkers and some other features.  At Cowboys, knowing what they were going to charge, I gave little thought to maintenance difficulty around the bunkers.  At other courses that were mid priced, I changed my philosophy a little.


Certainly, not considering maintenance in the original design is a problem a professional architect should avoid, but we often didn't back in the go-go days. That said, there are a lot of courses out there where we couldn't have predicted a private club would be a run down muni within a dozen years.  The only solution (actually in place from post WWII until the 1980's boom) was to design for the next depression, even if it was (in theory) fifty years away.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 09:06:56 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2017, 11:03:37 AM »



Mike,


Love that quote. Have said similar, but not quite as pithily.


Heck Jeff...check out my 15 year old video  youtube   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_V48XmCA4&t=40s   I got tht quote and a bunch more....If you really like them I might be able to speak at one of your ASGCA meetings....
Have a good 4th.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2017, 04:48:16 PM »
Some of the better Scottish courses have spectacular bunkers without a proper ingress/egress. Dornoch especially comes to mind.


Right, but they are generally small and actually drain, correct?  And they have sod wall faces correct? And thus they really have nothing in common from a design/construction perspective with 90%+ of the bunkers worldwide.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2017, 07:48:52 PM »
...
A second mistake I see is placing a bunker across the fairway from a harsher penalty area (eg OB), thus not allowing a safe shot option, even if the angle to the green is already more complicated from the safe side.

If that is a mistake, there are plenty of name architects making mistakes on pretty much every design they produce.


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2017, 08:09:52 PM »
Despite reports to the contrary I'm also Civil.


😀😀 Well played Barney!


MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2017, 02:11:28 PM »
...
A second mistake I see is placing a bunker across the fairway from a harsher penalty area (eg OB), thus not allowing a safe shot option, even if the angle to the green is already more complicated from the safe side.

If that is a mistake, there are plenty of name architects making mistakes on pretty much every design they produce.


Especially when the OB has a safety implication...

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2017, 02:14:25 PM »
Some of the better Scottish courses have spectacular bunkers without a proper ingress/egress. Dornoch especially comes to mind.


Right, but they are generally small and actually drain, correct?  And they have sod wall faces correct? And thus they really have nothing in common from a design/construction perspective with 90%+ of the bunkers worldwide.


Yes, they were quite small, believe they drain well due to sandy soil, and are revetted. They look great.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateurish Mistakes by Professional Architects
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2017, 05:17:19 AM »
 ;D ::)


Ally is so right about soils. Within a twenty five mile radius of where I sit there have been at least ten courses hat I have watched being built and two that got my personal attention . The soils are so dramatically different , even in this small area of bucolic south jersey.


What we can do at Greate Bay is really easy relative to Twisted Dune , which had much more engineering and pipe in the ground. Certainly we could have done a little better with some things at Twisted Dune , but in the end the soils wee our biggest issue. Think loamy sand vs I-5 gravel .


So , the architect , or engineer isn't always blessed with the perfect medium to work with , and sometimes there just isn't blame, just some good or bad luck .












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