Great 14th holes?

[Sean Ogle]

I agree with Jon on Maidstone - one of my favorite holes in the world.


One of my other favorites is less known, but is the 14th on the Witch Hollow course at Pumpkin Ridge.


Dogleg left par 5, that is really a par 4.5.


A good drive has to clear a group of bunkers at the corner, and then leaves you with a long iron approach to an extremely precarious green if you want a shot at eagle.


Great sense of risk reward on every shot, and I've seen just as many doubles as I have birdies. A bit too easy for pros as a par 5, so it's fun to see them play it as a brutal par 4 during Web.com play.

[Brian Finn]

I love Cruden Bay's 14th.  It's a fun hole.  Maidstone, Old Town, Muirfield Village, and Sand Hills are among the best I've played.

I suppose I am in the minority, but I did not think that highly of the 14th at Fishers Island.   

[Josh Tarble]

I love Cruden Bay's 14th.  It's a fun hole.  Maidstone, Old Town, Muirfield Village, and Sand Hills are among the best I've played.

I suppose I am in the minority, but I did not think that highly of the 14th at Fishers Island.

If it were built by a modern designer it would get skewered.  I think it's an ok hole, I might put it in the top half at Fishers.

[Carl Rogers]

14th at Tobacco Road, you see it off your right as you drive in.

[Jim_Coleman]

   I'm partial to our 14th at Rolling Green.  200 yards to a reverse Redan (I think), with a huge drop off to the right and a signature 1930's bridge crossing the "canyon."  Our version of "Calamity."

[Terry Lavin]

Terry,

I applaud you for your brevity!  😁

[Bill_McBride]

Very happy to take your "two best 14th holes in the world" as TOC and Ganton, providing you up that to three best and include Portmarnock.

"Foxy" should be in that discussion too

[Scott Warren]

This thread is Peak GCA.com 

[John Cowden]

And then there's the 14th at Pasatiempo, a gem in a very special routing...

[J_ Crisham]

14 at Beverly is a terrific short par 4 . My favorite hole on our back nine. 14 on OFCC north is probably the best 14th hole in Chicago . Butler 14 is very solid as well as 14 at CGC .

[James Brown]

Very happy to take your "two best 14th holes in the world" as TOC and Ganton, providing you up that to three best and include Portmarnock.

"Foxy" should be in that discussion too

+1

[mike_malone]

Humbly offer 14 at Rolling Green as a worthwhile slightly uphill 200 yard par three

I was about to suggest this after I checked that it was indeed the 14th.  From my single play I recall feeling that the act of walking across the bridge, which while not the only route, served to remind me I had reached "the beginning of the end."  Four great holes await you once you hole out.  The little detour over the bridge (original to the course?) did a great job of taking you out of the routing for a brief moment before you reach the green.




I believe the bridge was added in the 40/50's.

[mike_malone]

   I'm partial to our 14th at Rolling Green.  200 yards to a reverse Redan (I think), with a huge drop off to the right and a signature 1930's bridge crossing the "canyon."  Our version of "Calamity."

Jim,


While it could be called a reverse redan I was told that Flynn never went overseas so he didn't do templates which imitate British Isles holes. For me his holes became templates for others.

[Mark Kiely]

Two courses here in Southern California come to mind for me: par-4 14th at La Quinta Resort (Mountain) and the par-3 14th at Oak Quarry.

[Mark Pearce]

Another in the UK is Goswick.  A much, much better version of Crudeness Bay's 14th.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Very happy to take your "two best 14th holes in the world" as TOC and Ganton, providing you up that to three best and include Portmarnock.

"Foxy" should be in that discussion too

+1

OK,


So The Top 5 14th holes in GB&I:


TOC
Portmarnock
Royal Dornoch
Ganton
County Louth


I'm not sure anyone can put forth an argument where one of these should be replaced. Certainly there are others that can form a personal preference, usually due to quirk (such as Cruden Bay or North Berwick - I have not played Goswick) but they are not better holes.... Two that might come close are Colt's strategic 14th at County Sligo and perhaps Carnoustie.... Then there's always Calamity at Portrush but that's now the 16th and I'm not sure a par three can be in the running for this award, Rosapenna's OTM providing another excellent one.


Haven't played Marty's suggestion at Leven, don't think the short 4 at Gleneagles Kings is good enough. Hoylake in Open configuration is another good one but not good enough.


Can't think of any in the heathlands that would win the day...


What else have we got? And does it really challenge for a place in the BIG 5?

[Mark Pearce]

Ally, Goswick doesn't beat any of the three of your big 5 that I have played (TOC, Dornoch, Ganton) but it isn't as quirky as NBWL or CB.  It's a really good golf hole, with an uphill drive and a sunken, blind green but there's much less luck involved in playing it well than either of the other two and much more skill.  It's also a far more interesting green complex.  If you haven't seen Goswick, you should.

[Sean_A]

Hang on there, I question Portmarnock's given status as an auto choice best 14th.  Digging into my memory banks, I think there is a strong argument for

14 Worcestershire...tough and longish par 4 playing down as it turns left then to a great plateau green...doesn't deliver on the visuals as it is a plain ole great hole without any muss or fuss...P'marnock's submission is not better and it doesn't deliever on visuals with the staid bunkering

14 Castle Course...awesome green...every bit as good as Ganton's or Baltray's submission...delivers on the visuals as well


Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Hang on there, I question Portmarnock's given status as an auto choice best 14th.  Digging into my memory banks, I think there is a strong argument for

14 Worcestershire...tough and longish par 4 playing down as it turns left then to a great plateau green...doesn't deliver on the visuals as it is a plain ole great hole without any muss or fuss...P'marnock's submission is not better and it doesn't deliever on visuals with the staid bunkering

14 Castle Course...awesome green...every bit as good as Ganton's or Baltray's submission...delivers on the visuals as well


Ciao

Get out of here. I've lost all faith in you. You clearly can't even remember Portmarnock's classic.


And proferring up The Castle Course's contrived 14th (on a course I like a lot) shows you've lost all sense of reason.

[Sean_A]

Ally

Contrived is a double edge sword.  Some of the best holes are obviously contrived and it would be sheer stupidity not to acknowledge their greatness.  Then there is the rote bunkering on P'marnock's 14th...come on...you can't think that is a good job with little soldiers lined up ever so? I can buy that it is a great hole, but when you use contrived as an argument against others holes its like having your cake and eating too. 

I am not sure we can use a homer's opinion in this matter 

Its a hard man who can't dig this


Ciao

[V. Kmetz]

....  Also, you disrespected 14 at Augusta which is undoubtedly a better hole than any on your home course.

Agree - even on a course with greens of high character, this is a standout. I'm satisfied that it was a more amusing and option-laden hole when the fairways rolled at 3 and the greens at 6, but it's still a noteworthy 14th.


Also would like to include the 14th at Quaker Ridge into the discussion, my favorite on the course, one of the most handsome and proportionate holes you'll ever find....perhaps the only pseudo "Hell" complex to be rendered on a doglegged hole.


cheers
vk

[David Whitmer]

I tend to think the 14th at Bandon Trails is a great hole. Not all will agree, obviously, but I love it. Multiple options...not an easy par despite its modest length.

I also love the 14th at The Golf Club. It's a terrific par 5 with options on every shot.

[Ken Kearney]

Per (part of) Ally's suggestion:
County Louth
County Sligo


Both cracking par 4s but I fear for them both ... 




Best,
KK

[Matthew Prince]

Here is a pic, courtesy of Evan Schiller, of the hazard on QR #14


https://www.instagram.com/p/BSRhVPdA86P/

....  Also, you disrespected 14 at Augusta which is undoubtedly a better hole than any on your home course.

Agree - even on a course with greens of high character, this is a standout. I'm satisfied that it was a more amusing and option-laden hole when the fairways rolled at 3 and the greens at 6, but it's still a noteworthy 14th.


Also would like to include the 14th at Quaker Ridge into the discussion, my favorite on the course, one of the most handsome and proportionate holes you'll ever find....perhaps the only pseudo "Hell" complex to be rendered on a doglegged hole.


cheers
vk

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean, I've told you I chose the club for the course, so the homer argument doesn't stack up... Anyway, you should listen to any number of people other than me on the matter.... Your contrarian views are almost always welcome (but just not when I disagree with them)...


Incidentally, the 14th at PGC has a green far superior to the one you're arguing for.... and the visuals to match....


The 5 remain and I'll eat my driver cover  if The Worcestershire's hole is better (haven't seen it)



Ken - so I believe. Have you heard any updated status on the proposed changes at either course? It's been too long since I wandered down to the 14th at Rosses Point where I understand the green is planned for the dune ridge. And I seem to remember hearing from Philip Spogard about potential tee movement at Baltray.