[Jack Carney]

The Team Quota and Nine Hole Match formats appear to be the most popular Member Guest formats in our area. The Team Quota is considered a grind by most players but some say determines the best teams while the Nine Hole Match format is considered more fun but allows for more sandbagging. We are scheduling a new Senior Member Guest and are considering the format. I appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

[Brad Treadwell]

Jack -


I think you've summarized it pretty well.  I've played in both types.  My club's event is 54 holes...all "points"....formats are Chapman, Best Ball, and Combined.  You can get away with some "ham and egg" play on the first two days, but there is nowhere to hide on the final day.  I feel this format defienetely rewards those that played the best all week.  But, the downside is you are only playing with 6 other people in those 54 holes, so not as social (we do some other things to make up for that I'd be happy to explain over IM or email).


The nine hole matches...obviously more social, incorporates match play (which is great), etc.  The one thing I have never heard a good solution to is a good way to end up with the champions....seems like its a horse race (which is fun) but has to be handicapped and it all can come down to one shot or bad break (which I understand is golf), whereas the format we use better rewards those that have played well all week.


So in the end, it really comes down to what you are looking for.


Good luck,


Brad

[Tom_Doak]

Question:  Is it important for the best team to win in a member guest?


I think that's a key to making the right decision.


For our Renaissance Cup, we went from a Team Total stroke play event to a series of nine-hole matches about 15 years ago.  The main reason was that it eliminated the accounting part of the event ... results are all crystal clear so I don't have to spend my time collecting cards to find out who won.


The secondary reason for the change was to give more teams a chance to compete.  We typically have a handful of very good teams, and a bunch of also-rans; but in a nine-hole match, crazy upsets are enabled.  And that's just way more fun than having the best team run away to a five-stroke victory ... even for the winners!  In the semi-final of our last event, David Eger [who's won more than $7 million on the Senior Tour] and his partner were taken to the last hole by one of the young guys on our construction crew and his dad!

[Brad Treadwell]

Question:  Is it important for the best team to win in a member guest?

A very fair question Tom, and one I'd expect you will find people on both sides of the fence.  Some want the test of trying to compete and grind it out for three days and lost the best cumulative score.  However, I'll completely contradict myself by saying the best times I have in a given year on a golf course (and some of the best golf I play) are all in match play situations.  But I still don't really like how the eventual winners are decided when handicaps are anywhere from 0-28.  But would love to hear examples...might swing my preference to the other side. 


(I'll further contradict myself by saying my tastes in golf courses have definitely swung to being much more concerned about it being fun...and less concerned about it being a good test...)

[Kevin_Reilly]

But, the downside is you are only playing with 6 other people in those 54 holes, so not as social (we do some other things to make up for that I'd be happy to explain over IM or email).

Brad, my club's member guest is also made up of three 18-hole rounds, so we have the same issue with only playing with three other teams during the event.  I'd enjoy hearing about the other things that your club does.

[Mike Wagner]

Every format has it's merit, no?  One I play every year changed the "end" one year I thought was a better way to determine a winner.  It was 5 nine hole matches followed by each flight winner playing a 6 hole shotgun (12 flights / 6 groups). Net BB score won.  Ended up in a 2 team playoff everyone got to watch.


They switched back to the horserace format for the flight winners which, while much more fun for viewing, sort of leaves things up to chip-offs and the such.  Nothing wrong with it, I'm just not a big fan of seeing days of play come down to a chip.

[Tom Fagerli]

Best way to handicap I have been involved with is to have the strokes be allowed to bring you back to par. This tightens all matches and seems to help eliminate the 17 who "careers"it with a 75 gross.
Around here everyone seems to be doing the nine hole matches with a shootout. People seem to like it.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Best way to handicap I have been involved with is to have the strokes be allowed to bring you back to par. This tightens all matches and seems to help eliminate the 17 who "careers"it with a 75 gross.
Around here everyone seems to be doing the nine hole matches with a shootout. People seem to like it.

That's the exact format at our club.
The matches are "flighted" by handicap. You can win your flight, but you aint going to win the "shoot-out" unless you are a 14 hdcp-er or unless you make 3 natural birdies.


I may start a thread just about sand-bagging as it has become so egregious.

[David Wuthrich]

I have been fortunate to play in Tom's Renaissance Cup.


It is a great event with a great format and a definite winner at the end.


I didn't hear one team complain and everyone had fun.


It matches all types of golfers and anything can happen.


I am proof in that my partner and I got on a hot streak and ham and egged it to the semi-finals.


I look up and I am standing on the first tee with the great amateur player from Chicago, Joel Hirsch!


Our nine hole match was alternate shot, and my partner looked at me and said, the tee box is yours!


Needless to say, I was glad I got it airborne.  But in the end, they won on the ninth hole with a great shot by Joel.


I have never had so much fun on a golf course and come out on the losing end.


That is what I am looking for in a good tournament format.


Thanks Tom!!!!

[Jason Topp]

In nearly every case, match play is the better format for a member guest:

1. It is more social - you play with at least 5 other teams
2. More teams have a chance during the last round
3. Rules issues are dramatically less of a hassle - because you need to make a claim immediately in match play most rules issues get worked out within the group.  Also - you do not face the need to DQ some team because they screwed up a rule.  Also - some clubs have a culture of conceding very short putts, even in stroke play, which to me is a recipe for a wide array of problems.
4.  Some people will not play in a stroke play event in order to avoid having to post a stroke play score.  I think it is easier to generate participation with a match play format.

If you have a club with serious players who play by the rules and compete in stroke play events regularly, a quota event can work but that situation does not describe most US Clubs.

Use 90% of handicap differential (or whatever the USGA recommends).

I also like it when there is a cap on the number of points a team can get in match play (+5 at our club that scores on a plus/minus basis).  That reduces the chance of a team tanking the last match in such a manner to let a friend's team win.

[Jack Carney]

THANKS GUYS!


This has been very helpful!

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