[Gary Sato]

Whitten gets co design credit but did he really contribute anything?


Is it a conspiracy theory that they used him for ratings?

[Alex Miller]

The driving range and first hole don't face east.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Whitten gets co design credit but did really contribute anything?


Is it a conspiracy theory that they used him for ratings?

I'm not exactly sure how much he did, but until the changes were made recently Erin Hills was ineligible for both best in state and top 100.

[Peter Pallotta]

In his own words


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/previewing-erin-hills

[John Kavanaugh]

Ron's only mistake was saying that Gillette's Ridge was better than Wintonbury Hills. That lead to a world class pissing match that is being settled this week. Ron, a hall of fame jewel of a man, won. Hallelujah.

[Mike Sweeney]

Ron's only mistake was saying that Gillette's Ridge was better than Wintonbury Hills. That lead to a world class pissing match that is being settled this week. Ron, a hall of fame jewel of a man, won. Hallelujah.

All reports from Central Connecticut are that Matt Dusenberry won:


https://www.keneyparkgolfcourse.com

[Gary Sato]

In his own words


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/previewing-erin-hills

A lot of contridictions in that article. 


"I made over 100 visits to that site. I staked out every hole and then some. I hand-dug bunkers, floated out some greens."
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[Mike Sweeney]

Finally read the article in full this morning. Wow, there is a lot of pain in that article.


Whatever he did or did not do I appreciate Ron Whitten sharing the background.

[Forrest Richardson]

Snarky post, but deserves some comment. I think history will reveal that Ron got it all moving, especially in terms of hosting a US Open. There is not doubt in my mind that this was truly a collaboration during virtually all phases. Whether Dana or Mike did everything Ron said is probably never to be known. But getting people to listen — which Ron is good at — is (as MasterCard says...) "priceless".

[Ronald Montesano]

is this the first that we're hearing that Mike Keiser considered Ron Whitten for the 1st course at Bandon? to me, that's the buried lead in this reveal.

[Niall C]

Forrest

I read the article and it did come across to me, as someone who knows nothing of the background or much about the people involved, that it was a bit of a self-serving piece. In that context I wonder which post you find snarky, is it the OP ?

Whether RW was instrumental in getting Erin Hills the US Open is one thing and can be debated but surely the relevant question for this DG is what did he contribute to the design ? His article didn't really nail it down for me.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

is this the first that we're hearing that Mike Keiser considered Ron Whitten for the 1st course at Bandon? to me, that's the buried lead in this reveal.

It's in Steve Goodwin's much-read book about the making of Bandon Dunes.

[George Pazin]

is this the first that we're hearing that Mike Keiser considered Ron Whitten for the 1st course at Bandon? to me, that's the buried lead in this reveal.

The story that I've always heard was that Keiser contacted Whitten and asked him about having an armchair architect competition for the original course, but Whitten said the site was too special to waste in that manner. Can't say I recall where I read/heard that.


The wise Mike Sweeney is right on both counts - lots of pain running through the piece, but it's nice reading his thoughts.


Niall, I wonder with any collaboration, unowned difficult is it to say who contributed what. Did they document everything at Old Macdonald? We all know from the many many long debates on here that even courses like Pine Valley and Merion don't  have clear records of who contributed what. Heck, even in my little t shirt shop, we have trouble remembering who did what just a few years ago. Regardless, I enjoy hearing a principal's thoughts, even while recognizing it's as much opinion as fact.

[George Pazin]

is this the first that we're hearing that Mike Keiser considered Ron Whitten for the 1st course at Bandon? to me, that's the buried lead in this reveal.

It's in Steve Goodwin's much-read book about the making of Bandon Dunes.

Just goes to show how memories can trick a person; I'd have wagered I read the story about armchair architects in that book...

[Willie_Dow]

What a great commentary of ideas and creative thinking !


Especially liked the comments of using a shovel rather than a ditch digger on some of the bunker faces on the green sides.

[Niall C]

George

I think that's right, I dare say the principal players would be hard pressed to agree amongst themselves who did what, even just after the course opened. It just seemed to me that in some respects RW was a bit vague. I mean staking out greens, what does that mean ? Does that mean he chose those sites or that he simply was engaged in doing the donkey work of sticking the stakes in the ground ? And as a supplementary question, were those sites the ones they used and if so who made the decision ?

Niall

[Mike Nuzzo]

Gary
IMO Ron had a large impact on the overall design including leadership or steering it in the right direction, maybe even top billing.
Top billing would depend on how the routing evolved.
Cheers

 

[JC Urbina]

In regards to this thread, Ron Whitten, dug bunkers, Ron Whitten, floated greens, he expressed in his written piece what part of the design he was a part of.  Why can't people take that for what it is, he thanked as many people as he could because he knew everyone had a hand in it.  Bill Coore as often said, people think you just wave a magic wand and poof the design appears, he knows as well as Ben that it takes a group of committed individuals all giving  something to the effort. 

George Pazin,


Regarding  your question on Old Macdonald, I have knowledge of what every one contributed to at Old Macdonald, including the often forgotten construction crew and maintenance crew.   They all offer something including Ken Nice and his crew on both Pacific Dunes and Old Macdonald offering countless  suggestions,  that's how these things are designed and built. 


It is not just one guy, never was and never will be. I know  because of the amount of time I spent on Old Mac and Pac Dunes.  you know everyones name and what they do!

[Tom_Doak]

is this the first that we're hearing that Mike Keiser considered Ron Whitten for the 1st course at Bandon? to me, that's the buried lead in this reveal.

It's in Steve Goodwin's much-read book about the making of Bandon Dunes.

Just goes to show how memories can trick a person; I'd have wagered I read the story about armchair architects in that book...

George:


It was both.  Mike originally proposed the armchair architect competition, and Ron told him that was crazy.  But then Mike asked Ron if he wanted to design the course.  I'm pretty sure that was in Goodwin's book, too, although perhaps not, as Ron Whitten was the one who told me that many years ago.

[Tom_Doak]

It is not just one guy, never was and never will be. I know be because of the amount of time I spent on Old Mac and Pac Dunes.  you know everyones name and what they do!

Jim:


Yes, to hear you tell it, you wouldn't know I was there at all.


That's the other reason it's so hard to pin down who did what.  Even the people who know sometimes leave parts out.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ron's only mistake was saying that Gillette's Ridge was better than Wintonbury Hills. That lead to a world class pissing match that is being settled this week. Ron, a hall of fame jewel of a man, won. Hallelujah.

All reports from Central Connecticut are that Matt Dusenberry won:


https://www.keneyparkgolfcourse.com

When they flip the nines.

[Mike Sweeney]

Jim:


Yes, to hear you tell it, you wouldn't know I was there at all.


That's the other reason it's so hard to pin down who did what.  Even the people who know sometimes leave parts out.

I can't cut and paste the quotes, but Jim's original interview about Pacific Dunes is here:


http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/jim-urbina-june-2002/


Relationships evolve, but Jim seems to be a team first guy in that interview.

[Phil McDade]

Whitten has talked about how much he misses the Dell hole, so I'm guessing he had a lot to do with its inclusion in the original course.

[Forrest Richardson]

From what I have heard, Ron did a lot of work and made a bunch of trips out to the site — not just originally, but ever since. Passion.

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