[Ran Morrissett]

Much is being made about this being a par 72 course, the first one since Tom Kite in 1992 according to Brother Bill. Not since Pebble Beach have we seen four par 5s – and back then, its 14^th hole even played properly and was an awesome addition to the quartet.

Having said that, we all know the excitement and drama that par 5s can lend a tournament – we get a timely remember each April.

Yet, the US Open has always had its own voice, generally courtesy of a bunch of long, hard two shotters. A few of the converted member pars/holes like those at Winged Foot might even be better as 4s than 5s.

Nonetheless, all this talk makes me appreciate Erin Hills and its three shotters – they lend drama in an unforced manner. Plus, I am weary of modern architect building a pond, sticking a green beside it 330 yards from the tee and announcers anointing it 'a great risk/reward hole.'  Such contrivances didn’t dominate design in the 1920s. Rather, par fives played a vital role in lending courses an appealing ‘give and take.’

Regarding Erin Hills, the 1^st green runs away and the ground contours 10-30 yards short are key (ask Brooks Koepka), the 7^th can swoop a short right approach well away, the 14^th has produced 3s and 8s so far, and the bending 18^th is awesome 150 yards and in. Central bunkers are a central  theme at 3 of the 4 holes.

Last time I remember a non-April major with four such appealing par 5s was won by Rory at Kiawah - and I liked that course set-up quite a bit too.

Does having four par fives help account for the high # of birdies amassed by the field at Erin Hills this week? Sure.
 
Is that a bad thing? I don’t see why, especially Sunday when 14 and 18 will likely play a late round pivotal role in the proceedings. As the course dries out, these holes will continue to blossom.

Welcome back par 5s – I hope we get to see them more often in June!

[Mark_Fine]

Ran,

If a hole is well designed (in that it has some interest whether it be in the driving zone, the green complex,...) does it matter if the USGA calls it a par four or a par five?  The hole itself to me is what creates the excitement, more so than the par it is given.
Mark

[jeffwarne]

When does DJ ever hit a driver and a 3 wood?
Great to see yesterday even if the two shots went 700+yards.(680 in the air)
Seeing a course that allows drivers to be used HAS to show the USGA how far these players really hit it .(imagine if it hadn't rained often this week)


I enjoy the course,the par 5s and the fact they can hit drivers.I just hate that it takes hundreds of extra acres  thousands of extra steps and intold extra minutes elapsed to provide what we had 30 years ago.


Erin Hills is the perfect test for the modern game. I just dont like the game.
Especially in a world that's otherwise attempting to be sustainable.

[Peter Pallotta]

J - EH uses a lot of land to test the best of the modern game; Mammoth Dunes will use a lot of land to do what, exactly?
M - the difference is that with a Par 5 I can watch a Zach Johnson play it much differently than a Dustin Johnson does
R - yes, if for no other reason than it lets the architect and not a USGA set-up man design the challenge and variety

[Mark_Fine]

Peter,
Zach and DJ are going to play the hole "regardless of what the USGA says par is" however they each think is the best way to make the lowest score.


I almost hate to say this, but this is looking more like a normal PGA Tour shootout than a US Open.  I am rarely ever a fan of US Open setups (never for normal play) but there is some merit every once in a while to see the best players in the world struggle to make "par". Makes the rest of us feel a little better I guess 😊

[Terry Lavin]

Methinks Johnny Miller might disagree.

[Matthew Essig]

Methinks Johnny Miller might disagree.

+1. Lmao.

[Mark_Fine]

I should have taken more time to look at the hole yardages.  My earlier comment was more toward the tactic of the USGA converting what is "normally a par five" to a par four.  That is not the case in this event but then again I am not sure what constitutes a "par five" these days with how far these guys hit the golf ball???  I used to think a 520ish yard hole was a par five.  At Erin Hills there would be six or seven "par fives". 

[Tim Martin]

The shot that Justin Thomas hit in on 18 to set up his closing eagle is one for the ages. I think he needed to carry the 3 wood north of 290 playing slightly uphill over a nest of bunkers. Holy s--t!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terry Lavin]

Distance means nothing. So many of the ground hazards have been rendered irrelevant by this crop of bombers, thin, wastrel-like pipe cleaner flexible kids who make the ball disappear. I thought it was bad in 2003 at Olympia. This is borderline obscene. An utterly defenseless US Open. At least the first three days.

[Tim Martin]

Distance means nothing. So many of the ground hazards have been rendered irrelevant by this crop of bombers, thin, wastrel-like pipe cleaner flexible kids who make the ball disappear. I thought it was bad in 2003 at Olympia. This is borderline obscene. An utterly defenseless US Open. At least the first three days.

Judge-No argument with the distance but that was a courageous line that he took. Even in a wet pair of pink pants the kid doesn't get to 150 lbs and acted like he "careered" it to me.

[Terry Lavin]

These kids are fearless, to be sure.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Although it's good to see lots of birdies and eagles at a US Open, the course has been defenseless without windy conditions. It was designed with wind in mind.  Let's see what happens next year at Shinnecock Hills.

[Matthew Essig]

Although it's good to see lots of birdies and eagles at a US Open, the course has been defenseless without windy conditions. It was designed with wind in mind.  Let's see what happens next year at Shinnecock Hills.

Good news: wind is forecasted to be in the teens tomorrow

[Sean_A]

For the 1000th time... Its medal play... par don't mean squat.


Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Good point Sean!  It is only the total score that matters. 


I have to laugh at any early comment made prior to the start of the tournament when the course was described as "Shinnecock Hills with balls"     Not quite and not when you let the boys hit drivers 

[Bill_McBride]

Good point Sean!  It is only the total score that matters. 


I have to laugh at any early comment made prior to the start of the tournament when the course was described as "Shinnecock Hills with balls"     Not quite and not when you let the boys hit drivers 

It's funny that the biggest concern going in was the deep rough.  Now it's low scoring!

[Ronald Montesano]

Par don't mean squat in match or medal play, or scrambles, or foursomes.


JT hit three career shots today. That "thing" off the downhill lie, out of fescue, that chased onto the green; that three-metal onto the par four green that left him a wee eagle putt (that he missed) and the beast on 18

[Jerry Kluger]

Personally, I think it is much more exciting/interesting to see if a player can make a birdie on 18 to win than if he can make a par. 

[Tom_Doak]

Personally, I think it is much more exciting/interesting to see if a player can make a birdie on 18 to win than if he can make a par.

Or eagle?


What Erin Hills does do [and Chambers Bay did, too] is put 3-woods and hybrids in the hands of the players trying to reach those par-5's in two.  I've always thought that was the only way to make these young guys earn their keep ... give them long approach shots, even if you've got to call the hole a par-5 to do it.


But they are so good with the 3-wood that the success of the design seems to be self-defeating! 


Thomas's finish yesterday was eerily reminiscent of Spieth and Dustin Johnson's shots into the 18th at Chambers Bay, even though the hole at Erin Hills was playing quite a bit longer.  [At Chambers Bay, the tee was up, and Dustin hit a 5-iron.  I'm betting the last at Erin Hills is much shorter tomorrow to let more guys try to go for it.]


The thing that gets me is that these guys hit the ball so far now that even THEY can't see it land.  They're like artillery officers now ... just set the launch angle and wait to hear the boom on the other end.  [Big Bertha, indeed.] 


In fact I thought that was the most remarkable thing about the golf yesterday ... there are so many semi-blind shots out there, from the long approaches to the par-5's, to the uphill 4's, or even the par-3 16th where Ron Whitten can take some satisfaction that they used an essentially blind par-3 for the U.S. Open.  It looks great on TV, but if I was a great player, I'd really prefer to see my shot land. 

[jeffwarne]

 Ron Whitten can take some satisfaction that they used an essentially blind par-3 for the U.S. Open.  It looks great on TV, but if I was a great player, I'd really prefer to see my shot land.



Really  ?

[Tom_Doak]

Ron Whitten can take some satisfaction that they used an essentially blind par-3 for the U.S. Open.  It looks great on TV, but if I was a great player, I'd really prefer to see my shot land.

Really  ?

Oops.  I rearranged that post a bit, and what I'd written about wanting to see my shot land on the par-5's sounds like it was meant to be about the par-3 [which I added in late].  I'm okay with a blind or semi-blind par-3 on a course, but it seemed like Erin Hills has an unusual number of semi-blind shots, doesn't it?


I'm just struggling with the idea that we're going to design courses where guys hit it so far they can't see the target.  What would they do without TV towers to aim at?


That said, I did enjoy seeing guys hit big hooks and fades into some of the greens, because of the sidehill stances and semi-blind shots.  [Guys seemed to hit a fade into 6 and a hook into 16 so they could start the shot where they could see it.]

[Niall C]

For the 1000th time... Its medal play... par don't mean squat.


Ciao

Sean

As someone else pointed out par means even less in matchplay. It does however mean something in strokeplay in so much as players can keep tabs with where they are positioned in the field while they are on the course. Not sure how you could do that all that well or easily if the scoreboard tried to record each players accumulative score after each hole.

Niall

[Don Jordan]

I thought 18 was just about perfect today, the very best and longest could get home giving them an advantage over those that couldn't who were left with a nasty pitch. Distance is insane but it is still relative and the hole today seemed to perfectly segment those that could from those that could not. The shots that Koepka and especially JT were amazing and worthy of players trying to win their first national championship.

On other sites there is a lot of moaning about the scoring - I say who cares, mother nature has not played her part this year and this is what happens in benign relatively soft conditions.

[jeffwarne]

Ron Whitten can take some satisfaction that they used an essentially blind par-3 for the U.S. Open.  It looks great on TV, but if I was a great player, I'd really prefer to see my shot land.

Really  ?

Oops.  I rearranged that post a bit, and what I'd written about wanting to see my shot land on the par-5's sounds like it was meant to be about the par-3 [which I added in late].  I'm okay with a blind or semi-blind par-3 on a course, but it seemed like Erin Hills has an unusual number of semi-blind shots, doesn't it?


I'm just struggling with the idea that we're going to design courses where guys hit it so far they can't see the target.  What would they do without TV towers to aim at?


That said, I did enjoy seeing guys hit big hooks and fades into some of the greens, because of the sidehill stances and semi-blind shots.  [Guys seemed to hit a fade into 6 and a hook into 16 so they could start the shot where they could see it.]

Thanks for the clarification-thought you were about to partner with a Tour player:)
Hitting the ball out of sight will result in more purpose built 9000 courses, and 6 hour rounds for those who want to play at a major venue.


A shame the weather didn't cooperate

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