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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« on: June 13, 2017, 08:34:05 AM »

Don't know if I've seen or played many sharp dog legs that work well for a variety of reasons , whats the consensus out there?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 08:38:21 AM »
There's nothing worse than a 90 degree dogleg.  If you get too much bend you penalize someone who either can't reach or has to club down too much to lay up. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 08:47:11 AM »

There's nothing worse than a 90 degree dogleg.   


Other than a 95 degree dogleg.....


Have posted this before, but my mentors summed up sharp doglegs with "There are only two situations where sharp doglegs don't work - 1) where there are trees, and 2) where there aren't trees.


1 is too problematical for those who don't make the corner, and 2 makes it too easy to cut the corner.


When I designed Tangleridge in Texas, we had to move the green due to wetlands, and the 14th came out as a near 90 degree dogleg, but it goes around a pond.  I gave it a wide fairway with no hazards.  However, hugging the lake gives you a 35-40 yard advantage on the approach over playing it well wide to the outside of the dogleg, which is enough temptation to play it close.  Works best if the 3 club distance takes you from about 7 to 4 iron, as the 4 iron is much harder to hit.  Taking it from a W to an 8 wouldn't induce the same fear and you would play safely.


The other sharp dogleg that works (for me) is a 45 degree or more when you have the alternate challenge fairway on the inside.  Same principal applies, dogleg needs to be pretty sharp to attain the required for temptation 3 club approach distance.  Also, works best on long par 4 IMHO, since you can cut the approach distance from 180+ to under 150, if laid out right.  Of course, allowing chance to reach par 5 in two works also.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 08:54:06 AM »
There's nothing worse than a 90 degree dogleg.  If you get too much bend you penalize someone who either can't reach or has to club down too much to lay up.

Its even worse when big hitters can cut the corner while all other schmucks are struggling to hit the ball in a 20 yard box.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 09:13:11 AM »
As much as I enjoy the Ross courses that we play regularly, the sharp doglegs are my least favorite holes--No 17 at Pine Needles, No. 9 at Mid Pines, and No. 16 at Hope Valley.  All have wonderful green complexes, but for the reasons stated by others above, the drive undermines the value of the holes.


Ira

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 11:47:23 AM »
They seem to love sharp doglegs around trees in Germany, where I've been traveling this week.  You can rarely see the flag from the tee.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Doglegs/ severity of the angle New
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »
 8)


Years ago we would often play a public golf course around the corner from work named Freeway Golf Club. The management knew we all caddied at PVGC and would play afternoons when we didn't go 36 holes .  It was cheap , we could play fast and we were treated great there . Fond memories !


There was a short 470 yard par 5 that was a 90 degree dogleg left .   The dogleg was about 350 yards out . The left side was completely wooded but with no underbrush . When you got to that hole you knew that if you hit it real solid in the right corner of the fairway you might be able to snap hook a shot on the green or if you had a 7 wood that you could hit really high (cobra baffler ) you might knock it on in two. It was an exciting shot, because if you didn't hit it high enough you made a big number on an easy hole . While I don't think it would work for me as as good design it certainly was interesting .


This being said lots of holes seen very few good sharp doglegs. Gary Players design team seems to favor them and while I have   great respect for his accomplishments in the game they tend to be awful .
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 09:26:51 PM by archie_struthers »

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