[Tom_Doak]

by a vote of 89% to 11%, the members of The National have approved our plan to redesign their Ocean course.  The work will be done next year, although it's possible we will get a head start this year.


I'm astounded by the support for a redesign; by contrast the vote to restore Bel Air to George Thomas's design was only 64-36. So either I'm 25% more popular in Australia than in my home country, or I'm 25% better than George Thomas! 

[Greg Gilson]

Tom, this is great news. Congratulations. That's a great endorsement for the you & your team down under as well as the work Andrew Davis et al did internally. As members, my wife & I are looking forward to seeing the evolution.


BTW, I guess another reason for the "lopsided" result could be that The Ocean is 25% more unpopular than GT's Bel Air?

[Tom_Doak]

I guess another reason for the "lopsided" result could be that The Ocean is 25% more unpopular than GT's Bel Air?

  Way to knock me down, Greg.


But 25% is not nearly enough margin for that comparison!

[Mark_F]

It's startling that 11% of the National's members thought the Ocean course was worth keeping. 


Just goes to show there's more money than brains down there.


At least by the end of the rebuild there will be one good course out of the three.

[Charles Lund]

Happy the club voted so resoundingly on the redesign proposal.

I liked the process,  which included a member survey, design proposals,  and voting on the one the Board considered the best.  The Doak proposal addressed shortcomings identified which the member survey thought of as needing attention. 

I look forward to the redesign, with the reroutings, new holes, and elimination of bunkers which seemed to me as overly punitive and mislocated.

Happy to be able to travel regularly to that part of the world.  The National is a remarkable golf complex.

Charles Lund

[Matt MacIver]

Curious - who was the original architect? 


And who's paying for the renovation?  If the Members are being assessed, perhaps some of the 11% is found there.  But getting 89% of people to agree on anything these days is quite an accomplishment.  Congrats and good luck!

[Rees Milikin]

by a vote of 89% to 11%, the members of The National have approved our plan to redesign their Ocean course.  The work will be done next year, although it's possible we will get a head start this year.


I'm astounded by the support for a redesign; by contrast the vote to restore Bel Air to George Thomas's design was only 64-36. So either I'm 25% more popular in Australia than in my home country, or I'm 25% better than George Thomas! 

It's because you are awesome

[Charles Lund]

Thomson, Wolveridge, and Perrett were designers.

Charles Lund

Curious - who was the original architect? 


And who's paying for the renovation?  If the Members are being assessed, perhaps some of the 11% is found there.  But getting 89% of people to agree on anything these days is quite an accomplishment.  Congrats and good luck!

[JC Jones]

by a vote of 89% to 11%, the members of The National have approved our plan to redesign their Ocean course.  The work will be done next year, although it's possible we will get a head start this year.


I'm astounded by the support for a redesign; by contrast the vote to restore Bel Air to George Thomas's design was only 64-36. So either I'm 25% more popular in Australia than in my home country, or I'm 25% better than George Thomas! 

I wonder what the vote at Bel Air would be after they saw this post.

[corey miller]

The work will be good because Tom and his team will be doing it.......Very little good generally comes from member surveys, review of design proposals, review of perceived member shortcomings, or things that need attention. 


Is Bel-Air work commencing?

[Charles Lund]

Maybe very little good comes from member surveys etc. but in this case The National involved members in the process in a way that documented concerns and issues for the redesign that were important to members.  The Doak proposal related to areas that were in the survey.  Survey results came out several months ago and the Doak proposal happened to address areas important to members.

I completed the survey a year ago and read the survey report.   I had seen Tom Doak around the Ocean Course in late 2014 and was aware the club had brought him in to take a look.  His proposal seemed to address what members did not like about The Ocean course and overlapped with the aspirations many members had.  His design work was known due to St . Andrews Beach being nearby and Barnbougle Dunes being across the Bass Strait.

In this instance, the survey process clarified member preferences without turning the survey into a redesign by committee.   The Board selected the Doak proposal for an up or down vote.  The process, Tom Doak's reputation, and his proposal all contributed to the level of support.

Charles Lund

[Matt_Cohn]

Cool. Are plans available anywhere?

[Tom_Doak]

We drew a lot more plans for this than usual (because they have 1000 members and not one owner), but I'm not sure if they have it up on their web site for public review.

[Charles Lund]

Members were provided with a concept plan with hole by hole diagrams and descriptions of new holes and rerouting. There were informational meetings prior to the vote.  I don't know if the materials are on the web site.

Over the past couple of years,  I had a lot of discussions with other members about the prospects of a redesign.  Most members were hoping for changes which would make the course more fun and interesting.  The Doak proposal resonated with what they were hoping for and some of the recommended changes would alter features that tended to be overly annoying and frustrating to many players.  His work speaks for itself so he was a credible designer.   

The club culture is such that members have lots of experience playing courses all over Australia and around the world.  So I think that as a group they recognized the potential to make major improvements and were open to taking advantage of the best options.

So I also think the vote reflects what I value about my experience with the club.

Charles Lund

[Brian Walshe]

The National is a large club with 3400 members and 4 courses.  Of the 4 the Ocean was the one that the majority of members were less than enamored with.  As Tom noted in his review, on a windy site the greens seemed to be designed to repel the ball which made it less than enjoyable at times.  TWP did three courses in the Cups country at much the same time.  Peter Thomson did The Open Course at Moonah Links, Ross Perrett the Legends Course at Moonah Links and Mike Wolveridge the Ocean Course at the National. 


When the National went to market for what are now the Moonah and Ocean courses, Tom Doak and Mike Clayton did plans for 36 holes, so Tom has a bit of knowledge of the land.

[Jim Nugent]

We drew a lot more plans for this than usual (because they have 1000 members and not one owner), but I'm not sure if they have it up on their web site for public review.

Can you tell us if you are basically starting from scratch, e.g. with a new routing, or are you taking some bones that already exist and building around them? 

[Brian Walshe]

For those interested the club has created a website so people can follow the work


https://ocean.nationalgolf.com.au/

[Tom_Doak]

We drew a lot more plans for this than usual (because they have 1000 members and not one owner), but I'm not sure if they have it up on their web site for public review.

Can you tell us if you are basically starting from scratch, e.g. with a new routing, or are you taking some bones that already exist and building around them?

Sorry, I missed this last year.


We are using about 75% of the existing fairway area but relocating 11 of the 18 greens, and reshaping the rest of them.


The 1st and 18th are in the same position as before, partly because I liked those corridors, and partly because the Moonah course limits the options for getting back to the clubhouse with four holes.


The 2nd hole will become way shorter, with the green just over the fairway bunkers on the left ... it reminds me a bit of the 2nd at St. Andrews Beach.  The 3rd will play into the current 17th fairway, with that green moving short and left of its present location.  The 4th is the old 16th with a new green ... the 5th a new short hole back underneath the present 3rd tee ... and the 6th will combine the old 3rd & 4th into a long par-5, with the big bunker on the right becoming a hazard for the second shot.


I won't bother going through all the rest now, but it is on a similar scale.  The old 1st, 5th, 7th, 8th, and 18th are the holes that we are keeping closest to their original form [although old 5-7-8 will now be 7, 13 and 14 as the sequence of holes has changed].


They have started tearing things up; Brian Schneider will arrive in about ten days to start reshaping greens.  I am making one extended trip in September to work on all of the greens.

[Matt_Cohn]

Here's a link to the full Doak proposal, routing, hole-by-hole, etc. I don't think anyone has posted this yet.


https://ocean.nationalgolf.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Tom-Doak-Concept-Plan-and-Proposal.pdf

[Mark_F]

For those interested the club has created a website so people can follow the work


https://ocean.nationalgolf.com.au/

Par 37-34, back to back par threes, a second hole reminiscent of St Andrews Beach - surely National members are going to be leaving in droves, Brian?

[Brian Walshe]

Mark,


There were a few interesting discussions around par and the back to back par 3's.  A lot of golfers think par 72, 36 out 36 in and 10 par 4's, 4 par 5's and 4 par 3's is a rule that cannot and should not be broken.  When it's pointed out that 6 of the Top 10 in the world are either 71 or 70 you get some interesting looks. 

[Daryl David]

Back to back 3s hasn’t seem to hurt Pacific Dunes.

[Jim Nugent]

Back to back 3s hasn’t seem to hurt Pacific Dunes.

Or Cypress Point.

[Brian Walshe]

Daryl,


Nor Cypress, nor Machrihanish.  Interestingly they all have 15 and 16 as the par 3;s.

[Mark_F]

Or Cypress Point.

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think National Ocean could be compared with Cypress Point.

Mark,
There were a few interesting discussions around par and the back to back par 3's.  A lot of golfers think par 72, 36 out 36 in and 10 par 4's, 4 par 5's and 4 par 3's is a rule that cannot and should not be broken.

I know, Brian.  A lot of golfers think three-tiered and Biarritz greens are beyond the pale too, but when you build something surrounded by eye candy, it's amazing how those criticisms disappear, even if the hole is worse off. 


Was there ever any discussion about the course being shorter?  6360 is still pretty long (although obviously shorter than the old version).

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()