Kevin Na on Erin Hills and Fescue

[Peter Pallotta]

I find it interesting in reading this discussion, that most are focused on how there should be no sympathy for the pros, and how little concern there is for how much fun it might be to watch the pros play this course.

I hadn't noticed that until you mention it, Joe - but you're right. I don't think I've read anywhere yet about how the width might allow for various lines of play, nor about the relationship between green contours/slopes and the preferred angles in.
I assume EH is a quality enough design that such things do/will matter, and that should produce interesting viewing, e.g. watching how, say, a long hitter vs a shorter one play the various holes.
Peter

[Buck Wolter]

In his interview about it, Rory noted the nearly 60 yard wide fairways, and suggested that if instead of fescue there were red stakes/OB, no one (i.e. the players) would give it a second thought. In other words: if you hit it in there you'd consider it/accept it a lost ball, but not an unduly harsh penalty given the width of the landing area.
Peter

It's a U.S. Open -- they should have unduly harsh penalties out there.

Unduly --in an inappropriate, unjustifiable, or improper manner

I don't agree

[jeffwarne]

Kevin Na made a "agitated " video.
(I call it whiney)
He put it on Social media.
IF he's getting grief he only brought  it on himself, the same as anyone could criticize my opinion on Social media.


The Geoff Olgilvy comparison is laugable-a thoughtful student of architecture vs. a rant about a setup issue.

[Kalen Braley]

Kevin Na made a "agitated " video.
(I call it whiney)
He put it on Social media.
IF he's getting grief he only brought  it on himself, the same as anyone could criticize my opinion on Social media.


The Geoff Olgilvy comparison is laugable-a thoughtful student of architecture vs. a rant about a setup issue.

+100 Jeff. 

[Kalen Braley]

Where does Rory get it wrong here?  I think he's spot on as usual


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/rory-mcilroy-blasts-decision-to-trim-roughs-for-us-open/vi-BBCEeYl

[Keith Grande]

For some reason, I think he's missing the point.  He's all in on the usual US Open deep rough.  Which most of us here are against, no?  There are large corridors....but are't there also run off spots on downslopes and sideslopes where the ball can wind up in gunch?  What about strong cross winds and preferred playing angles where the really tall stuff can come into play?  I don't think it's as black and white as he's making it.

[Kalen Braley]

Keith,


How is this any different than challenging a bunker or a creek for a preferred angle into the green or an extra distance kick?  I think this is one of his main points... its just another hazard on the course

[David_Tepper]

Further info on the cutback of the fescue, which started a week ago, well before any of the players arrived (and well before Kevin Na's video).

http://golfweek.com/2017/06/14/us-open-whats-up-with-the-fescue-cutting-at-erin-hills/

Actually, the cutbacks of fescue started more than a week ago, before the players arrived en masse, before the bellyaching from some golfers. The USGA and the Erin Hills maintenance crew have been pulling back some of the denser, taller fescue to uncover bunkers that had gotten overgrown, opening up more lines of visibility. On the 338-yard, par-4 second, crews removed the tallest fescue from the back of a massive fairway carry bunker. The move created more options for players to try the 280-yard carry and benefit from the downhill slope behind – without the risk of losing a ball that made it over.

USGA championship agronomist Darin Bevard explained it as he drove by. “We’re doing it for playability, visibility and aesthetics. Not to make the course easier, just to make it the way we wanted it to play before the fescues got so high.”

Lately, the fescues have sprouted as if on steroids. A cool, wet spring set the stage, followed by a burst of uncommonly hot temperatures the last two weeks that saw the fescue grow by as much as a foot. The chewings and creeping red fescues in particular got heavy-headed.

[Carl Nichols]

I was very skepical that this was a response to Kevin Na, of all people.


I am surprised, however, that they waited until just a week ago.  I would've thought the USGA would have people out there throughout the spring and would be more proactive. 

[JJShanley]

Keith,


How is this any different than challenging a bunker or a creek for a preferred angle into the green or an extra distance kick?  I think this is one of his main points... its just another hazard on the course

It's a hazard, but perhaps the difference lies in it not having the same distinction in the rules with respect to a penalty drop, assuming you find the ball.  You can drop on dry land, perhaps even on a ideal lie with a preferred distance, if you hit into water.  You can drop from an unplayable lie in a bunker (within the bunker admittedly.) 


With gunch like what I've seen at Erin Hills, you flail away until you get it to shorter grass.  I just don't find that compelling golf, whether or not you have spotters. 


A shorter height, or less dense rough might represent a greater hazard if it prompts a player to take it on.  We've a tiny road-hole/DA bunker on a reachable par five at Warren which is small enough in size to miss, but the consequences of your reaching it help you determine your approach. 

[Phil McDade]

I was very skepical that this was a response to Kevin Na, of all people.


I am surprised, however, that they waited until just a week ago.  I would've thought the USGA would have people out there throughout the spring and would be more proactive.

Carl:


The quote below from the story cited by Mr. Tepper is an accurate description of the weather here in Wisconsin:

Lately, the fescues have sprouted as if on steroids. A cool, wet spring set the stage, followed by a burst of uncommonly hot temperatures the last two weeks that saw the fescue grow by as much as a foot. The chewings and creeping red fescues in particular got heavy-headed.

I'm not an expert on fescue growth, but this sounds right to me -- we've had a very wet, cool spring followed by a quick surge in very high temps, over 90s in some cases, accompanied by severe but brief thunderstorms the past week. Seems like a recipe for what's happened.

[Kalen Braley]

JJ,


I may be mistaken, but can't one also take a drop from unplayable rough if they so choose?  I just don't see that as fundamentally different  from taking an drop because its in a creek or unplayable because its under some bushes or buried in a bunker.


If anything it adds an extra layer of strategy in that one must now weigh if they should risk it and give it a go, or take the safe route and take an unplayable.  Such option doesn't exist if its OB or in the bottom of a pond..

[Carl Nichols]

I was very skepical that this was a response to Kevin Na, of all people.


I am surprised, however, that they waited until just a week ago.  I would've thought the USGA would have people out there throughout the spring and would be more proactive.

Carl:


The quote below from the story cited by Mr. Tepper is an accurate description of the weather here in Wisconsin:

Lately, the fescues have sprouted as if on steroids. A cool, wet spring set the stage, followed by a burst of uncommonly hot temperatures the last two weeks that saw the fescue grow by as much as a foot. The chewings and creeping red fescues in particular got heavy-headed.

I'm not an expert on fescue growth, but this sounds right to me -- we've had a very wet, cool spring followed by a quick surge in very high temps, over 90s in some cases, accompanied by severe but brief thunderstorms the past week. Seems like a recipe for what's happened.

But doesn't seem completely unpredictable; and would only 6" of growth have made it substantially more playable?

[Phil McDade]

Carl:


Maybe not unpredictable, but I work with folks who follow weather pretty closely, and it's been a very odd stretch of weather here for the past several months -- very little snow since Jan. 1, a very wet and cool spring by Wisconsin standards, and then instantly hot with mid-summer thunderstorm weather popping up in early June. And the fescue issue may be more of a thickness issue than a height issue, from what I can tell.

[Carl Nichols]

Carl:


Maybe not unpredictable, but I work with folks who follow weather pretty closely, and it's been a very odd stretch of weather here for the past several months -- very little snow since Jan. 1, a very wet and cool spring by Wisconsin standards, and then instantly hot with mid-summer thunderstorm weather popping up in early June. And the fescue issue may be more of a thickness issue than a height issue, from what I can tell.

Agreed that it's the thickness that seems to be the issue.  I wonder whether it would go from acceptable to too thick essentially overnight. 

[JJShanley]

JJ,


I may be mistaken, but can't one also take a drop from unplayable rough if they so choose?  I just don't see that as fundamentally different  from taking an drop because its in a creek or unplayable because its under some bushes or buried in a bunker.


If anything it adds an extra layer of strategy in that one must now weigh if they should risk it and give it a go, or take the safe route and take an unplayable.  Such option doesn't exist if its OB or in the bottom of a pond..

You can take an unplayable from rough, but if you end up two club lengths in then you might as well hit it from where it lies.  (Unless you mean red-staking the rough, I suppose.  That changes things) 


I agree with you on the OB stakes.


I suppose I want to see elite players play shots that I can't.  I can play the muffed pitch out of long stuff that leaves me in greater trouble already.  Perfected that shot in high-school, thank you very much.

[Kalen Braley]

JJ,


I suppose we're all looking for different things from the tournament.  51 weeks of the year we can watch the besties rip and shred courses with impunity doing amazing things...I don't think there is any harm in giving em a very generous target, but making em pay big time if they can't find it.


P.S. On a side, from 2 feet and in, I can play just like the pros do!! 

[JJShanley]

JJ,


I suppose we're all looking for different things from the tournament.  51 weeks of the year we can watch the besties rip and shred courses with impunity doing amazing things...I don't think there is any harm in giving em a very generous target, but making em pay big time if they can't find it.


P.S. On a side, from 2 feet and in, I can play just like the pros do!! 

We're closer on this that it might appear.  I suppose I recall Carnoustie 1999 when I think thick tall rough, although EH has *much* more generous fairways. 


I enjoy watching a contender, down the stretch on Sunday, have to consider whether to go for broke from a rotten, but playable lie.  To what extent can he advance the ball 50, 100, 150, 200 yards?  Do other hazards now pose an additional hazard once you get out of position? 


I'll have regular tour events on as background on Sundays if I'm at home.  I pay attention to majors from Saturday onwards because the ma

[Kalen Braley]

JJ,


Carnoustie is certainly the poster child for where they went overboard.  But the long rough wasn't the culprit, it was the decision to play on bowling alleys instead of fairways. I vividly recall seeing one pic where players were walking down a fairway that no exaggeration couldn't have been more than 15 yards wide...it was beyond absurd.

[George Pazin]

Kinda funny.


People complain on here all the time about over the top set ups, silly rough, etc. But have a pro do it, and he's a spoiled whiny little beeyotch....


Most of the comments on here (not slow play related) directed at Na strike me as driven by envy more than actual thought. Sad.

[jeffwarne]

I was very skepical that this was a response to Kevin Na, of all people.


I am surprised, however, that they waited until just a week ago.  I would've thought the USGA would have people out there throughout the spring and would be more proactive.

No that would require  a full time  pet sdon on site.
Oops..guess they have tbat

[Tim_Cronin]

Walking around Erin Hills after Tuesday morning's rain, which brought the total to 1.75 inches including Monday's storm (and it rained again Wednesday), I can confirm that the fescue was extremely thick right next to the intermediate rough, but much lighter from five to six yards in. And by 1 p.m., where the gallery was walking was completely try most everywhere. The sand base does drain well. But the fescue soaks up the water and grows like crazy.

[Matt_Cohn]

Why are you people so interested in seeing guys searching for their golf balls? How is that possibly a good thing to have? I don't get it.

[Sean_A]

Why are you people so interested in seeing guys searching for their golf balls? How is that possibly a good thing to have? I don't get it.

Very strange isn't it?  But it would seem many relish the idea of watching pros search for balls then flail about in the rough.  Its not my idea of entertainment so I won't be watching much....if any.  It takes all kinds I spose. The Open is what it is....I simply write it off as yet another tv program which isn't entertaining.

Ciao

[Grant Saunders]

Kevin Na made a "agitated " video.
(I call it whiney)
He put it on Social media.
IF he's getting grief he only brought  it on himself, the same as anyone could criticize my opinion on Social media.


The Geoff Olgilvy comparison is laugable-a thoughtful student of architecture vs. a rant about a setup issue.

So, if a thoughtful student of architecture expressed the same view it would somehow cease being a rant but rather becomes a brave statement about the poisonous influence championship golf has on today's courses?