Kevin Na on Erin Hills and Fescue

[Don Jordan]

I played Erin Hills last year after the US Open and they had it ready to film the fly-overs. The rough is insanely dense and the fescue unplayable except for maybe a few. Even the club spotters were struggling to find balls they watched going into the fescue and they do it for a living.


I can't say I really enjoyed the experience, a foot off the fairway and it was wedge out. At times you had to almost step on your ball to find it. All the experience did was make me appreciate Old Mac and Pac Dunes even more when I got there.

[Bill Raffo]

I'll be the first to bash the USGA when they get it wrong, like choosing Chambers Bay as a site for the tournament.  The US Open should produce a winner who gets in position the best off the tee all week and preservers through the difficulty of the set up.  That's what the tournament is.  Play it at Chambers Bay and its a US Open in name only. Erin Hills has promise when guys are crying before it starts.  The irony is the set up should help someone like Na as the long hitters would seem more likely to find that stuff on missed shots.

[David_Tepper]

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/6/13/video-lee-westwoods-caddie-emerges-safely-from-rough.html

[Tim Martin]

Karma has him packing his suitcase on Friday. See ya!!!!!

[Howard Riefs]

According to this Golf Digest reporter, they are apparently cutting back the fescue on some holes:


https://twitter.com/JoelMBeall/status/874660714736218113


https://twitter.com/JoelMBeall/status/874667758998482944

[Matthew Essig]

As Howard said, the fescue is being cut back.


https://twitter.com/PeterUihlein/status/874652421535956994


Rory is not very happy about it. In his press conference he said, "We have 60 yards from left rough to right rough. You have 156 of the best players in the world. If you can't hit it in that avenue, you might as well pack your bags and go home. Like, I don't get... These are the widest fairways we have ever played in the US Open, and the first and second cut is another 10 yards on top of that.... This is the US Open. It is supposed to the hardest test. If guys can't put it play in a 50 yard zone, they don't have much to complain about."


My theory:


1. The USGA is fighting an uphill battle after the last two years. They don't need more controversy (even though it is stupid and will be seen as soft cause the fairways are so wide).


2. Rain last night. Rain this morning. Rain forecasted as a possibility Wednesday night, and a 50-50 Friday night through Sunday afternoon. The fescue is only going to be thicker. The fairways will probably have lost some heat. The course will play long, so the USGA might think the course playing longer adds enough difficulty by making the players hit driver on every hole (?)

[Matthew Essig]

USGA has confirmed that it is weather-related. With the amount of rain received, the fescue has laid down. It is only being cut back on four holes.

[Phil McDade]

2. Rain last night. Rain this morning. Rain forecasted as a possibility Wednesday night, and a 50-50 Friday night through Sunday afternoon. The fescue is only going to be thicker. The fairways will probably have lost some heat. The course will play long, so the USGA might think the course playing longer adds enough difficulty by making the players hit driver on every hole (?)

Wouldn't a potentially wetter EHills argue for not cutting back the native stuff? In 2011, balls were flying all over the place there -- when the course was playing extremely fast and firm. Why cut back if it's easier to hold the fairway off the tee?

[Grant Saunders]

If Geoff Ogilvy had made and posted this same video, this discussion group would have given it a standing ovation and this thread would be littered with comments about how great it is to see someone standing up for the virtues held so dearly by this board. It would not have created even the slightest blip on the radar of the general golfing public because it would have been some lowly rank Aussie taking a stance.

Ironically, you have a golfer who has pretty decent recognition suggesting that unplayable rough that you cant locate a ball in if you enter it by mere inches possibly isn't a great model to subscribe to and he is getting crucified on here.

Tough crowd.......

[David_Tepper]

Grant S. -

I agree totally. Kevin Na made a very valid observation regarding the depth & thickness of the fescue rough (similar to Zach Johnson's observation that Merion was "manipulated" when the US Open was last held there) and he gets roasted for it. I don't agree with KN's suggestion that a group of past winners should set the course up, but he is spot on regarding the fescue.

DT     

[Howard Riefs]

USGA has confirmed that it is weather-related. With the amount of rain received, the fescue has laid down. It is only being cut back on four holes.

The fescue was cut back on holes 4, 12, 14, 18 
https://twitter.com/RexHoggardGC/status/874688476935065602


Additional coverage:

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/06/13/usga-mows-some-fescue-erin-hills-after-rain-makes-it-unplayable

http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/usga-mows-down-some-fescue-erin-hills-after-tuesday%E2%80%99s-heavy-rain 

[Phil McDade]

USGA has confirmed that it is weather-related. With the amount of rain received, the fescue has laid down. It is only being cut back on four holes.

The fescue was cut back on holes 4, 12, 14, 18 ([size=78%]https://twitter.com/RexHoggardGC/status/874688476935065602[/size])


Additional coverage:

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/06/13/usga-mows-some-fescue-erin-hills-after-rain-makes-it-unplayable
http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/usga-mows-down-some-fescue-erin-hills-after-tuesday%E2%80%99s-heavy-rain

Two par 5s -- 14 and 18 -- perhaps indicating the USGA may want to encourage bold play on those holes, and two others -- 4 and 12 -- that have traditionally played among the most difficult holes during tournaments held there, suggesting the USGA thinks they may have lost control a bit of those holes in terms of toughness.

[Kalen Braley]

Prairie Dunes is beloved by nearly all on this site... and that course is full of gunch on nearly every hole based on what I can tell in pictures, so I don't agree that GCA is anti-long fescue.  The only issue is "Is there enough width to accommodate the best players in the world?"


At 60-70 yards wide I don't see how this isn't the case....


P.S.  If Geoff O had made this video, I would have been just as critical...but given he didn't make it and to my knowledge hasn't complained about this setup...it seems he understands the setup is legit.

[BHoover]

Doesn't Prairie Dunes have (predominantly) bluestem prairie grass rather than fescue?

[Kalen Braley]

Doesn't Prairie Dunes have (predominantly) bluestem prairie grass rather than fescue?

Brian,


Perhaps it does, but the grass type isn't the point.  From the many posts I've read, at least you have a chance at finding/playing your ball in the Erin Hills gunch...

[BHoover]

Doesn't Prairie Dunes have (predominantly) bluestem prairie grass rather than fescue?

Brian,


Perhaps it does, but the grass type isn't the point.  From the many posts I've read, at least you have a chance at finding/playing your ball in the Erin Hills gunch...

Sorry, I just can't let misidentification of sward go unnoticed...

[Kalen Braley]

Doesn't Prairie Dunes have (predominantly) bluestem prairie grass rather than fescue?

Brian,


Perhaps it does, but the grass type isn't the point.  From the many posts I've read, at least you have a chance at finding/playing your ball in the Erin Hills gunch...

Sorry, I just can't let misidentification of sward go unnoticed...

Duly noted Brian its all good!


P.S.  As has been noted in other threads, I think most in the tree house are fine with various plant types on golf courses such as gorse, its just a matter of is the course elastic enough and set up correctly to make it playable.  The Open at Carnoustie from 15-20 years ago comes to mind when they turned the fairways into bowling alleys, just absurd...but I think otherwise Carnoustie is also a GCA fav..

[MClutterbuck]

While they are cutting down the tall fescues, it is not like they are widening fairways. The rough that remains does not look like too easy either, at least for longer irons. As I see it, in practical terms this is similar to moving OB stakes further out...

[jeffwarne]

The USGA had 9+ years to get ready for this Open.
Fescue's been out there growing the entire time.
Surely at some point they made a decision about how much to keep and how much to mow, and of course factoring in what kind of spring they have and growing conditions the last couple months.



Kevin Na posts an angry video and the next day they're cutting fescue like crazy.


But they say they're cutting it due to rain-not in response to player complaints.


wow.....


Surely if they were going to cut it back they would've done it before the world arrived Monday-to avoid being the story....again.

[Jim Franklin]

From an architectural point of view, what is the point of the REALLY thick fescue that no ball can be played from or even found? Shouldn't it be red staked at least?

[Keith Grande]

What a photo op by the USGA, trimming back the water logged fescue....in only a few spots. Showing how "progressive" they are this year.


Rory says keep the wrist-breaking rough.


I'm not sure how the prevailing winds play, but if they are cross, and trying to play preferred lines, I would think it not unreasonable for balls to find the thick stuff.

[Phil McDade]

From an architectural point of view, what is the point of the REALLY thick fescue that no ball can be played from or even found? Shouldn't it be red staked at least?

Because it's a U.S. Open? And maybe the idea of gradual penalties the further one strays from an ideal position is being thrown out the window this week?


When I first toured EHills, I thought the ideal set-up for a U.S. Open would be: really wide fairways, obvious targets to avoid (sand traps, mainly), and thick, penal fescue for really wayward shots. It seems the USGA has come close to that (albiet I have not been out there this week to see the course).

[Peter Pallotta]

In his interview about it, Rory noted the nearly 60 yard wide fairways, and suggested that if instead of fescue there were red stakes/OB, no one (i.e. the players) would give it a second thought. In other words: if you hit it in there you'd consider it/accept it a lost ball, but not an unduly harsh penalty given the width of the landing area.
Peter

[Joe Hancock]

I find it interesting in reading this discussion, that most are focused on how there should be no sympathy for the pros, and how little concern there is for how much fun it might be to watch the pros play this course.

[Phil McDade]

In his interview about it, Rory noted the nearly 60 yard wide fairways, and suggested that if instead of fescue there were red stakes/OB, no one (i.e. the players) would give it a second thought. In other words: if you hit it in there you'd consider it/accept it a lost ball, but not an unduly harsh penalty given the width of the landing area.
Peter

It's a U.S. Open -- they should have unduly harsh penalties out there.