[PCCraig]

Just posted this morning on the Golf Digest website:


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/best-in-state-rankings

[Mike Schott]

I have yet to play Arcadia Bluffs but is it the second best course in Michigan?

[Criss Titschinger]

Old Silo is on the Kentucky list, yet it closed about 3 weeks ago. Even if it was open, its current condition should not have it on any top in state list.

[Pete Garvey]

Old Silo is on the Kentucky list, yet it closed about 3 weeks ago. Even if it was open, its current condition should not have it on any top in state list.

No Idle Hour? 

[Cory Lewis]

No Idle Hour?

Idle Hour doesn't have enough evaluations to qualify for the list. 

[Bill Seitz]

I have yet to play Arcadia Bluffs but is it the second best course in Michigan?

No.  Nor is it the third, fourth, or probably the fifth.  I've played seven of the top 10 in Michigan, and I'd have it fifth or sixth out of those (haven't played True North or either of the Forest Dunes Courses).  Crystal, Oakland South, Kingsley, and Grewalls are all superior in my opinion.  It's good, but those four are tough to crack.

[Jay Mickle]

List has little credibility as Mid Pines is not a top 25 in NC.

[Steve Lapper]

  This is the typical reconstituted garbage GD list.....another one without a considerable number of very worthy courses that either don't "deserve" their consideration, or the perpetual elevation of unimaginative, boring and difficult courses.

  Perfect examples of this are the exclusion of the likes of a Whippoorwill, a St. Georges, or a Glen Falls and the inclusion of Manhattan Woods, The Bridge, or Oak Hill West. Really??

  Over the GWB, the continual elevated status of both Baltusrol courses over the likes of the restored Somerset Hills, Plainfield, or Ridgewood is but another head-shaker. The latter three represent some of the best work of their respective architects....something neither Balty 18 can lay claim to.

 Putting Liberty National on that list...anywhere inside it's top 30 is grounds for psychiatric review and questions of architectural understanding amongst the voting GD raters. When placed ahead of the likes of Mountain Ridge, Essex County, or Hollywood it reveals just how sight-impaired and incompetant the GD panel, and their list(s) are.

   Numbingly dumb IMO.

[John Blain]

  This is the typical reconstituted garbage GD list.....another one without a considerable number of very worthy courses that either don't "deserve" their consideration, or the perpetual elevation of unimaginative, boring and difficult courses.

  Perfect examples of this are the exclusion of the likes of a Whippoorwill, a St. Georges, or a Glen Falls and the inclusion of Manhattan Woods, The Bridge, or Oak Hill West. Really??

  Over the GWB, the continual elevated status of both Baltusrol courses over the likes of the restored Somerset Hills, Plainfield, or Ridgewood is but another head-shaker. The latter three represent some of the best work of their respective architects....something neither Balty 18 can lay claim to.



 Putting Liberty National on that list...anywhere inside it's top 30 is grounds for psychiatric review and questions of architectural understanding amongst the voting GD raters. When placed ahead of the likes of Mountain Ridge, Essex County, or Hollywood it reveals just how sight-impaired and incompetant the GD panel, and their list(s) are.

   Numbingly dumb IMO.

Steve-
Overall I know where you are coming from but have you ever played Oak Hill West? It's fantastic and as much I like Glens Falls I would rank OH West ahead of it.I would also rank Whippoorwill  and St, George's ahead of GFCC.


-John

[Tom_Doak]

GIGO

[MCirba]

GIGO

SNAFU

[Steve Lapper]

  This is the typical reconstituted garbage GD list.....another one without a considerable number of very worthy courses that either don't "deserve" their consideration, or the perpetual elevation of unimaginative, boring and difficult courses.

  Perfect examples of this are the exclusion of the likes of a Whippoorwill, a St. Georges, or a Glen Falls and the inclusion of Manhattan Woods, The Bridge, or Oak Hill West. Really??

  Over the GWB, the continual elevated status of both Baltusrol courses over the likes of the restored Somerset Hills, Plainfield, or Ridgewood is but another head-shaker. The latter three represent some of the best work of their respective architects....something neither Balty 18 can lay claim to.



 Putting Liberty National on that list...anywhere inside it's top 30 is grounds for psychiatric review and questions of architectural understanding amongst the voting GD raters. When placed ahead of the likes of Mountain Ridge, Essex County, or Hollywood it reveals just how sight-impaired and incompetant the GD panel, and their list(s) are.

   Numbingly dumb IMO.

Steve-
Overall I know where you are coming from but have you ever played Oak Hill West? It's fantastic and as much I like Glens Falls I would rank OH West ahead of it.I would also rank Whippoorwill  and St, George's ahead of GFCC.


-John

I have played all of those on the NY list, as well as those that I cited that were deserved of inclusion. On pure architectural quality, OHW would not, IMO, rise above the likes of Whippoorwill or St. Georges, and only maybe would it be the equal of GFCC. Good,  yes...fantastic...hardly.


Regardless, we are quibbling over what is a very, very flawed list.

[Peter Pallotta]

GIGO

SNAFU

I had to look both of those up.
Now I understand.
But perhaps you're both forgetting about "shot values", or SHOVALU.
Interesting concept in light of Tom's thread about appreciating holes or courses. Maybe even holes is too abstract for some; only shots are focused on.

[MCirba]

Agreed Peter...even the basic concept of SHOVALU starts with the somewhat fascistic premise that shots from all levels of players should take place from narrowly predetermined areas across the vast acreage of course.  This thinking is further illustrated by the modern practice of 5 or more tee areas and bunkers pinching the driving zone 250-300 yards from the back tee in rote formation.


It's about FREEDOM, man!!  (Affecting my best 70s hippie accent)

[Peter Pallotta]

Good one, Mike!
I was thinking about Tom's previous thread/question as I read this one. Steve mentions comparing courses "on pure architectural quality" alone - and I think I know what he means to say. I raised the notion of "shot values" - and again I think I know what the term is meant to measure/convey. I've come to the following conclusions, those of an average and little traveled golfer:

1. If a course has good greens and surrounds, then it will have good "shot values". If it doesn't, it won't.
2. I'm not able to measure/judge a golf course on "pure architectural quality", if by that term we mean purely on its collection of 18 golf holes.

Peter 

[Matthew Petersen]

Old Silo is on the Kentucky list, yet it closed about 3 weeks ago. Even if it was open, its current condition should not have it on any top in state list.

They have The Prince Course at #2 in Hawaii and that has been closed for a couple of years now.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

I had not heard about Old Silo (Graham Marsh, 2000) closing, but confirmed it with a few friends still in the area. Tough terrain, but the course had some some very solid golf holes. Lots of collegiate nostalgia for me; lots of fun rounds with good friends were played there in the mid-to-late 2000s.

Idle Hour, however, is fantastic; one of my favorites for sure.

[Mac Plumart]

 


Creekside!!!!!!


[size=78%]Randall, you around?[/size]


 

[Steve Lapper]

What is incredible is the lack of journalistic fact-checking, integrity or ethics that would allow GD to publish such a list (on the web no less...so, unlike print, little or no lead time is necessary).


At what point in time do golfers, or the game, point out this arrogance?

[Steve Lang]

   Let's not forget FUBAR

[jeffwarne]

  This is the typical reconstituted garbage GD list.....another one without a considerable number of very worthy courses that either don't "deserve" their consideration, or the perpetual elevation of unimaginative, boring and difficult courses.

  Perfect examples of this are the exclusion of the likes of a Whippoorwill, a St. Georges, or a Glen Falls and the inclusion of Manhattan Woods, The Bridge, or Oak Hill West. Really??

  Over the GWB, the continual elevated status of both Baltusrol courses over the likes of the restored Somerset Hills, Plainfield, or Ridgewood is but another head-shaker. The latter three represent some of the best work of their respective architects....something neither Balty 18 can lay claim to.

 Putting Liberty National on that list...anywhere inside it's top 30 is grounds for psychiatric review and questions of architectural understanding amongst the voting GD raters. When placed ahead of the likes of Mountain Ridge, Essex County, or Hollywood it reveals just how sight-impaired and incompetant the GD panel, and their list(s) are.

   Numbingly dumb IMO.

I agree with nearly everything you wrote.(especially Glen Falls and St, Georges)
I will say The Bridge has more fairway width and more centerline hazards, and is firmer and faster from opening day(mid April)-close..
than most courses on the NY list.
If you haven't played it in the past 2-4 years, you haven't played it-nor have nearly any GD raters as it's not the flavor of the month anymore.
Does that move it higher in people's ranking?
Give me a call and tee it up before the summer craziness begins-most haven't seen it since the original _______ (insert commment here)
Let the games begin....

[Steve Lang]

I have yet to play Arcadia Bluffs but is it the second best course in Michigan?

not third best course, top 10 though, maybe top 5 location, definitely not top 5 gca IMHO

[Steve Lapper]

Jeff Warne,


   I would've bet I'd hear from you! 


   You are right. I've not played The Bridge in the past few years (2011 was probably last visit).


   Your description of the fairway width, centerline hazards and F&F conditioning sounds dramatically different than the past, although the claim to seasonal top spot in NY for those terms might get some serious competition from the likes of NGLA or Friars Head, but without seeing it for myself, I'll defer to your domicile(for now) and try to make it out there to see for myself (probably in the fall?). Cheers!

[BCowan]

The list for Michigan was kinda of funny, but it improved since last year, much to go.  Battle Creek made it on the list.  Orchard lake did as well but way off, franklin at 13 is funny.  Belvedere moved up the list!  As for Oakland South it's 5th in SE MI for me and I'd doubt I'd have it in US top 100. 

[David_Madison]

Old Town being #7 in North Carolina behind Quail Hollow, Mountaintop, Eagle Point, and Diamond Creek (hey, three+ Fazio's right here) is laughable.

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