[Terry Lavin]

Some goofy entries in the Illinois list, like Rich Harvest, Bull Valley, Wynstone and Canyata (which I haven't played but never heard a great word about), but some nice looks with Beverly, North Shore and Flossmoor all on the list. Mixed bag, as usual.  One can quibble about the order but 20 of the 25 seem worthy IMHO, regardless of where they wound up on GD's list.

[Jeff Shelman]

Add me to the list of those disappointed not to see Idle Hour on the Kentucky list.

I haven't played Old Elm, but from all reports, it seems suspect that it can't make the Illinois top 25 (and I like Onwentsia better than some at the bottom).

I'm not surprised that Olympic Hills made the Minnesota list. It's much improved, but the previous version was the least fun course in the state.

The Iowa list probably has the right courses, but I don't love the order beyond No. 1.

I was pleasantly surprised to see North Shore find a spot on the NY list. I liked it.

[PCCraig]

I haven't played Old Elm, but from all reports, it seems suspect that it can't make the Illinois top 25 (and I like Onwentsia better than some at the bottom).

I'm not surprised that Olympic Hills made the Minnesota list. It's much improved, but the previous version was the least fun course in the state.

The Iowa list probably has the right courses, but I don't love the order beyond No. 1.

Old Elm is not a GD candidate course. I requested/suggested it be added a while back but it was never added for some reason. I think it's probably a safe Top 5 in the State and an easy Top 10.


I haven't seen Olympic Hills yet, but from the pictures it certainly looks interesting and improved. The Minnesota list includes a bunch (6?) resort courses. There are a few that deserve to be on the list, but I have a hard time thinking a course like Dakotah Ridge is better than some of the classic golf courses in the Twin Cities.


I think a few courses on the Minnesota list are grossly overrated in their current states. In particular Minneapolis Golf at #12 (no way...), Somerset (would be awesome if they restored all the Raynor features and took down 1,000 trees, but right now it's an overtreed Stanley Thomson course), Woodhill, and Rochester (maybe once Doak's restoration is completed, but right now it's not in very good condition and grossly overtreed).


It was nice to see Cedar Rapids "jump" in the rankings in Iowa. It's still way too low at #6 but as old votes roll off and new ones come in I would imagine it would continue to rise.

[Ben Hollerbach]

12 of the 20 courses in Georgia were built in the last 30 years, and 15 of 20 were build after 1965! For a state that has arguably been playing golf since the 1790's, that's surprising and a bit sad.


Also, do the publishers forget that Lookout Mountain is in Georgia, why is that course always left off these list.

[Keith Grande]

Unfortunately, these ratings have now (or for awhile) morphed into rankings unrelated to actual GCA, strategy, ideal playing conditions, and instead based on prestige, belt-notching, "resistance to scoring", course du jour, difficulty of access, etc...


Is there any minimum criteria for a course to make the rankings - ie a certain amount of ratings submitted to qualify?


I will say the Golfweek does a better job by having a Classic Course ranking, in addition to top in the state that you can play, which included Grossinger's in the NY top 10, which is sadly close to NLE...

[V_Halyard]

Agree with Jeff and Pat. Going forward, under the new GD 70 Visit minimum model, it will be interesting to see if Old Elm or like courses are going to allow 70 GD Rater visits over 2 years. Old Elm really doesn't give a rat's ass so its moot. Regarding Iowa, geographical bias appears to be in play, not just with regard to my beloved CRCC but most glaringly in the positioning of Davenport CC. GCAers on the GD panel might want to prod Des Moines peers to hop onto I-80 and take a look. And, to be clear, I am not a DCC member.  The GD list makes all of us connected to golf in Iowa once again appear like a pool of clueless pedestrians.

[PCCraig]

Agree with Jeff and Pat. Going forward, under the new GD 70 Visit minimum model, it will be interesting to see if Old Elm or like courses are going to allow 70 GD Rater visits over 2 years. Old Elm really doesn't give a rat's ass so its moot. Regarding Iowa, geographical bias appears to be in play, not just with regard to my beloved CRCC but most glaringly in the positioning of Davenport CC. GCAers on the GD panel might want to prod Des Moines peers to hop onto I-80 and take a look. And, to be clear, I am not a DCC member.  The GD list makes all of us connected to golf in Iowa once again appear like a pool of clueless pedestrians.

The new minimum number of panelist visits will be 25 for best in state, and 60 for Top 100 (over a 10 year span). It probably wouldn't be too hard for Old Elm to get 25 visits just through play as a guest of a member in 2-3 years. T&C, for example, has had 19 panelists submit evaluations since 2014 and we are hardly on the top of most panelist's lists when they think of Minnesota golf.


I haven't played Davenport since the restoration work but with the recent buzz it's gotten its hard to imagine it not climbing up the Iowa list as well.


What's your top 5 list of courses to see in Iowa, Vaughn? (Genuinely curious for future reference).

[V_Halyard]

Interesting question Pat.
Disclosure, I am trying to walk and carry my bag until the grave so have a classic bias.
I sincerely believe the current day CRCC and Davenport are closer to the top in state.
Davenport restoration is more mature and dramatic.  As Prichard/Rae's CRCC land use matures, it exposes a routing and lines of play that are so subtle and classic its haunting.
Wakonda is a sleeping giant with original bunkers in plain site... and overgrown and over-planted with trees.  If they were to do a real restoration, they might be best in the state. DCC and Wakonda are must plays. DCC is "what could be"(DCC) and Wakonda where you can see the ghosts trapped in the trees.
I enjoy Harvester and the bold architecture, setting and conditioning in combination to proximity to population keep it at the top. Not my top but that's subjective as a walker. Lots of cart forced moves.
DMCC is big and impressive as a major venue and cannot be discounted as the brute force architecture and budgets keep them on top but they are not my top. Still Must Play as the commitment to golf and excellence is in view and in play.  Again Subjective.


1: CRCC/DCC Tie (Even with my CRCC bias I can't Deny DCC's work so, a tie)
3: Harvester
4:DMG&C
5: Wakonda (Would be higher save for Ghost Abuse)

Agree with Jeff and Pat. Going forward, under the new GD 70 Visit minimum model, it will be interesting to see if Old Elm or like courses are going to allow 70 GD Rater visits over 2 years. Old Elm really doesn't give a rat's ass so its moot. Regarding Iowa, geographical bias appears to be in play, not just with regard to my beloved CRCC but most glaringly in the positioning of Davenport CC. GCAers on the GD panel might want to prod Des Moines peers to hop onto I-80 and take a look. And, to be clear, I am not a DCC member.  The GD list makes all of us connected to golf in Iowa once again appear like a pool of clueless pedestrians.

The new minimum number of panelist visits will be 25 for best in state, and 60 for Top 100 (over a 10 year span). It probably wouldn't be too hard for Old Elm to get 25 visits just through play as a guest of a member in 2-3 years. T&C, for example, has had 19 panelists submit evaluations since 2014 and we are hardly on the top of most panelist's lists when they think of Minnesota golf.


I haven't played Davenport since the restoration work but with the recent buzz it's gotten its hard to imagine it not climbing up the Iowa list as well.


What's your top 5 list of courses to see in Iowa, Vaughn? (Genuinely curious for future reference).

[Jason Topp]

One factor in these state lists is that it becomes pretty difficult to distinguish below a certain level.  Most of the courses on all of these lists are probably 6's on the Doak scale.

[Mark Pritchett]

Also, do the publishers forget that Lookout Mountain is in Georgia, why is that course always left off these list.

If the publishers think Lookout is Tennessee, it is not on that list either. LM is easily better than most courses on both lists!

[Ben Hollerbach]

Also, do the publishers forget that Lookout Mountain is in Georgia, why is that course always left off these list.

If the publishers think Lookout is Tennessee, it is not on that list either. LM is easily better than most courses on both lists!

I wish that Tennessee would claim it, they could use the boost in good courses.

[Jeff Shelman]

And while nine holes, seems like Sweetens Cove ought to find a spot in the Tennessee top 10.

[Sean_A]

Pennsylvania is a tough crowd when Rolling Green can't crack the top 15. Same for Michigan with Orchard Lake.

Mid Pines not making the list is harsh.  I think it is the equal of Roaring Gap.

I must be miles off point with Palmetto because for me it competes very well with Kiawah and Kiawah is a very fine course. I am very surprised Bulls Bay didn't make the list. 

On the flip side its good to see Tobacco Road regaining some momentum. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Pennsylvania is a tough crowd when Rolling Green can't crack the top 15. Same for Michigan with Orchard Lake.

Mid Pines not making the list is harsh.  I think it is the equal of Roaring Gap.

I must be miles off point with Palmetto because for me it competes very well with Kiawah and Kiawah is a very fine course. I am very surprised Bulls Bay didn't make the list. 

On the flip side its good to see Tobacco Road regaining some momentum. 

Ciao

Somebody's miles off on Palmetto, and it;s not you Sean.


No doubt the rater's are very impressed by overseeded rye grass, white jumpsuits, and "service"

[Nigel Islam]

    It's unfortunate that Idle Hour and Louisville Country Club miss out on ballot counts in Kentucky. Both should easily crack the top five. Idle Hour is the only legit challenger to Valhalla for number one in the state the way I see it.
    Indiana is at least a reasonable list. Broadmoor fell off, but otherwise I can't get too upset with the top 7. Maybe flip French Lick courses and move The Fort up. P

[mike_malone]

I know three states well---De., Vt., and Pa.  GD does not know those states .

[Tom_Doak]

One factor in these state lists is that it becomes pretty difficult to distinguish below a certain level.  Most of the courses on all of these lists are probably 6's on the Doak scale.

Exactly.  Lots of 6's and lots of 5's in some states.  Trying to rank a dozen courses with the same grade in order is bound to frustrate most readers.  You might as well throw darts at a list of them.

[Chris DeToro]

Glad to see Battle Creek CC make the Michigan top 25. 


A little surprised at the inclusion of Agawam on the Rhode Island list, but I can't quibble with the list as a whole too much. 

[MCirba]

Pennsylvania is a tough crowd when Rolling Green can't crack the top 15.

Yes, but ACE Club, Lookaway, Mystic Rock, Nevillewood, Huntsville, and Commonwealth National are all there in the top 20, thank God!   

[Tim Martin]

How can Stanwich be rated number 1 in Connecticut with the likes of Yale and CC of Fairfield lagging behind? The back tees have a 77/143 CR/Slope and a set of greens that are always maintained too fast. Even the next set of tees metes out torture in the form of 74.5/142. Further the idea that Hartford Golf Club gets on the list over the likes of Shuttle Meadow, New Haven, Waterbury or Wampanoag is wishful thinking at best. Yeah it's always impeccably maintained but lots of original features are long gone including many of the internal green contours.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tim:

How and when did Hartford lost its internal green contours?

Best,

Anthony

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()